fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #426 ]

⌈ Secret Post #426 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 67 secrets from Secret Submission Post #061.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] too big.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

To all the previous commenters who are so utterly taken aback by the fact that an atheist expressed an opinion in writing: get over it, dudes. Seriously, what? There are enough books out there written to dovetail neatly with your standard theology - if it's not too much to ask I'd quite like to have some pro-free-thought materials available for me to read and to provide for my (future) children.

ATHEISTS ARE PEOPLE TOO, GUYS. We do not just sit around in ivory towers all day talking about how stupid we think religious people are. We read books sometimes! And sometimes it's fun - however rare - to read a book that shares our values! And HDM is a great and well-written example of that.

It's not that he expressed an opinion in writing, it's that he's been so nasty about it. I don't care if he's atheist or Christian or Pastafarian; it's no excuse for being a dick.

And just for the record, the blatant theology stuff in the Chronicles of Narnia didn't sit well with me either. It goes both ways, you know?

...way to misinterpret the secret. :[

Your comment showcases a lot of what bothers me about most people who call themselves atheists today, actually. Not saying you do, just...this comment.

To all the previous commenters who are so utterly taken aback by the fact that an atheist expressed an opinion in writing: get over it, dudes.

Here we have the assumption that if someone takes issue with the way one particular atheist expresses his worldview in fiction, you must be against the idea of atheism-themed fiction in general...as opposed to, you know, taking issue with one atheist's expression.

There are enough books out there written to dovetail neatly with your standard theology

Here we have the implication that if you object to, again, this particular atheist's particular expression, you must be a sheep who follows "standard theology." (Yes, I know you didn't actually use the term "sheep," so don't dismiss my entire argument because of it. But the implication's kind of there.)

if it's not too much to ask I'd quite like to have some pro-free-thought materials available for me to read and to provide for my (future) children.

And here, the assumption that people who object to this particular fictionalization of atheist perspectives are trying to take "free thought" material away from the atheists and their children.

Going to ignore the second paragraph because you're clearly being kind of facetious there and it'd be pretty douchey of me to nitpick it.

I don't take issue with HDM (or Pullman) because it has atheist themes. I take issue with Pullman's personal interpretation of his own books because a) it seems much narrower than the more spiritual interpretation I initially got and b) he expressed it in annoyingly inflammatory ways.

For something that I think is a much better example of "pro-free-thought" fiction? Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, baby. Unlike HDM, that struck me from my first read as strongly pro-atheism, but AFAIK Douglas Adams was never a dick about it.

(also...fail at posting anonymous, sigh.)

Pullman is not "inflammatory", although the general opinion seems to be that expressing an anti-theist opinion is inherently inflammatory. John Hagee is "inflammatory". Focus on the Family is "inflammatory". Jerry Falwell was inflammatory. Hell, Christopher Hitchens is inflammatory, if you desire a godless example. Saying that you want to write a book about humanist ideals and the problems of faith is not inflammatory.

BUT GOD IS SERIOUS BUSINESS AND THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN HIM KICK PUPPIES AND EAT BABIES.

Hey now, babies are delicious and everything but I do love my puppy.

Also your icon is most excellent.

I like them with alfredo sauce myself.

Thank you!

iconzicons gets the credit, though. :)

...sigh. I tried to respond to your point reasonably and I get more of the same "religion in general = OMG THEISM" stuff that oh-so-subtly associates anyone who defends respecting spirituality with misogynistic and homophobic fundamentalists.

Bonus points for ignoring the majority of my comment to focus on one word! :]

Give it up, man. People like that aren't interested in having a discussion. They want to get butthurt and go crying.

Excuse me. Expressing an "anti-spiritual" opinion is inherently inflammatory. Bonus points for you for liking a book that criticized the type of religion you don't like, until you realized it also pointed some fingers at the type you feel warm and fuzzy about.

I take issue with Pullman's personal interpretation of his own books because a) it seems much narrower than the more spiritual interpretation I initially got and b) he expressed it in annoyingly inflammatory ways.

See, this is what I don't get. Firstly, Pullman's interpretation isn't the be-all and end-all - and I think if you read a lot of what he says when he discusses his books, you'll find that his interpretation isn't as narrow as you think. He's written about 'the democracy of reading'; we all bring our own personal experience to a book when we read it.

And secondly... is Pullman really that inflammatory? I can recall all of two comments he has made which could be interpreted as inflammatory. I remember before the film came out, the Catholic League loved to quote mine those comments. You know, like 'My books are about killing God.' But if you look at the context of that interview, you can see that he's joking about the lack of attention his books have received compared to the less controversial Harry Potter books. Sometimes he's deliberately provocative. But most of the time, his opinions about his own books don't strike me as inflammatory.

- same anon who posted the link to Pullman's website earlier.

[ SECRET POST #426 ]

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