Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-03-07 05:36 am
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-03-07 05:36 am
[ SECRET POST #427 ]
⌈ Secret Post #427 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Last day to submit for next week!
Secrets Left to Post: 0 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #061.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] too big, [ 1 2 3 4 ] posted twice.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: too big 3
oh, I can definitely agree about that! But that means it's not the sex, it's the writing. Portraying sex as something bad in and of itself both disturbs and annoys me.
Re: too big 3
(Anonymous) 2008-03-08 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)Re: too big 3
It seems shallow to me: 'oh look, --- cares about --- even though they act like they hate each other, so they must want to do it!'
Well, if that's the reason, certainly. But what's wrong with "I really like these two characters, and if they became romantically involved, the dynamics would be wonderful"? Or "they have a wonderful friendship, I would like to see how a romantic aspect works out"? It's all in the execution.
(Also, the straw hats famously get along very, very well; even when they argue, the deep affection they have for each other outweighs everything else. That's what One Piece is known for, really.)
I guess I'm just sort of offended by the idea that the only kind of love or deep bonding is romantic or sexual in nature.
This is not what romance is about, though. The One Piece characters already have a deep, meaningful bond in canon; the story proves it again and again. No one is trying to deny that. Keeping that friendship and adding romance isn't supposed to take anything away from the original relationship.
Re: too big 3
(Anonymous) 2008-03-08 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)Agreed, and I don't read it. Unfortunately, that leaves me with nothing to read but the source material. NOBODY writes "just friends" stories.
"But what's wrong with "I really like these two characters, and if they became romantically involved, the dynamics would be wonderful"? Or "they have a wonderful friendship, I would like to see how a romantic aspect works out"? It's all in the execution."
I don't have a problem with it per se, but again, it's all in the execution, and very, very little seems to be written well or with any motivating factor beyond 'lol I like this pairing b-cuz they are both hot' or things of that nature. And like I said before, I can't think of a single story I've come across that really delves into a relationship that isn't romantic or sexual. Even in stories with a pairing, nearly none of the other dynamics are played on, it's ONLY about x character and x character being all cuddley-wuddley. I wouldn't mind so much if that wasn't all there was.
"This is not what romance is about, though. The One Piece characters already have a deep, meaningful bond in canon; the story proves it again and again. No one is trying to deny that. Keeping that friendship and adding romance isn't supposed to take anything away from the original relationship."
I'm not trying to imply that anyone is denying their friendships in canon, and I agree that keeping friendship with romance can be a very interesting dynamic *if* done well. But it usually isn't. And the fact that most people, when writing these characters, have to change basic, funamental elements of their personalities just to make the relationship work the way they want it to only makes it more frustrating. If someone would write a story involving romance where everyone was actually in character, I wouldn't have a problem with that either, but so far, I haven't seen jack. And again, it's frustrating that other characters and dynamics get completely ignored in favor of this.
Re: too big 3
But the source material is so awesome! I doubt anybody else could write friendship like that. (Have you read Astrokenders fic, though? It's heavily reccecd all over the fandom, and I think it's pretty much all gen, focusing on Ruffy's and Zoro's friendship, though I haven't read it, so I don't know for sure.)
Even in stories with a pairing, nearly none of the other dynamics are played on, it's ONLY about x character and x character being all cuddley-wuddley. I wouldn't mind so much if that wasn't all there was.
Well, 90% of everything is crap, so finding good fic is really freakishly hard sometimes. My pair of choice for One Piece is Ruffy/Zoro, and I still haven't found anything really good, pretty much for the reason you stated; it's almost always badly executed. Still doesn't make it a bad idea, though!
And the fact that most people, when writing these characters, have to change basic, funamental elements of their personalities just to make the relationship work the way they want it to only makes it more frustrating.
Not to mention really bad writing. I loathe OOC from the bottom of my blackened soul.
If someone would write a story involving romance where everyone was actually in character, I wouldn't have a problem with that either, but so far, I haven't seen jack.
Neither have I, mostly, for my pairing (except a couple of ficlets with barely any plot). But that's the bad writing! Hate on the execution, not the genre! I've seen it in other fandoms, so it's not impossible. Really.
Re: too big 3
(Anonymous) 2008-03-09 05:17 pm (UTC)(link)Agreed the source is awesome, and I'm not expecting anyone to write exactly like Oda, I'd just like something in the general ballpark in terms of characterization, and honestly, variety. I don't mind pairings in general, I'm just sick of seeing nothing *but* that when there's such a rich wellspring of other ideas to draw from.
And the name Astrokender rings a vague bell, but I couldn't tell you what they've written. I'll look them up, thank for the reccomendation.
"Well, 90% of everything is crap, so finding good fic is really freakishly hard sometimes. My pair of choice for One Piece is Ruffy/Zoro, and I still haven't found anything really good, pretty much for the reason you stated; it's almost always badly executed. Still doesn't make it a bad idea, though!"
No, I don't have a problem with pairings as a rule, I'm just irritated that there's nothing but that for this universe, especially when the existing character dynamics are so interesting. I don't really care if someone slashes Sanji and Zoro, to each their own, but I can't think of a single story I've read where those two are the focus and it's not yaoi. It's not a relationship angle that I really go for with them because I think it's somewhat unimaginative (and one or both of them are completely OOC). I would LOVE to see someone take that competetive, squabbling dynamic and explore it a little more deeply without getting hormones involved. And the same goes for the rest of them. Pairings aren't bad, but there's more to these guys than just that angle, that's all I'm saying.
"Hate on the execution, not the genre! I've seen it in other fandoms, so it's not impossible. Really."
I know it's not impossible, which is part of the frustration. And like I've said, I'm not againt pairings per se, just the complete lack of anything else. I guess part of me finds it kind of sad that that's all that seems to interest people, too. There's so much more to individual relationships than just sex, and there's a lot of interesting stuff to explore in there, but no one does because they're more interested in trying to jam the characters into their pre-concieved cookie cutter molds and explore that same old cliched idea of romance that has no depth whatsoever. My hope is that maybe if they tried thinking about the charcaters without that idea, they'd start to understand them a little more, write better fic, and then if they wanted, romantic ideas could evolve a little more naturally. I'm probably just naively idealistic about that, but it's nice to have a dream.
But yeah, the original secret was the culmination of several years' worth of frustration on this topic. I would like some more variety in my fandom.
Re: too big 3
I think the general problem is that a lot of fans tend to do with fic what they don't find in the source. Though personally, I want fic that has a suspense/adventure plot with romance as a part of it.
I would LOVE to see someone take that competetive, squabbling dynamic and explore it a little more deeply without getting hormones involved.
Yeah, I'm not a Zoro/Sanji slash fan myself, and prefer them as squabbling friends. I know how frustrating it can be to have tastes that are in the minority in fandom; finding the particular type of fic I like is as bad as looking for good gen!
trying to jam the characters into their pre-concieved cookie cutter molds and explore that same old cliched idea of romance that has no depth whatsoever.
That really drives me mad. There's so much OOC tripe out there that I'm almost ready to give up, sometimes. I want romance between the actual canon characters, not some pod persons carrying their names! It's the canon personalities and dynamics that made me want to slash them!
And yeah, variety is good. Generally I've found that fandoms with writers who have a bit of experience (from earlier fandoms and the like; usually, but not always, they're a bit older too) tend to have more variety. Being new to fandom and fanfiction can make one a bit less than critical, I think; I know that I'm a lot more picky now than when I joined my first fandom and read everything. it's the glee over a new phenomenon, I think, heh.
Re: too big 3
(Anonymous) 2008-03-09 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)Yeah, that'd be nice. Something with some thought put into it, or at least something for all the characters to do outside of batting their eyes at each other. I like quite introspective pieces, too, but I love a good adventure yarn, and there don't seem to be many of those.
"I know how frustrating it can be to have tastes that are in the minority in fandom; finding the particular type of fic I like is as bad as looking for good gen!"
My condolences. I didn't think I'd seen too many of those around, either, which is somewhat surprising to me, really. Maybe we should try issuing some challenges, we might get lucky.
"It's the canon personalities and dynamics that made me want to slash them!"
Exactly. If they have to change the characters that much to do what they want with them, they may as well just change their names and make them original characters. If I'm looking for OP fanfic, I want to read about those characters.
"Generally I've found that fandoms with writers who have a bit of experience (from earlier fandoms and the like; usually, but not always, they're a bit older too) tend to have more variety. Being new to fandom and fanfiction can make one a bit less than critical, I think; I know that I'm a lot more picky now than when I joined my first fandom and read everything. it's the glee over a new phenomenon, I think, heh."
Oh agreed. And having a smaller fandom can help sometimes, too; when I first got into OP it was before it was licensed in the US-- there was still a fanbase, but it was much, much smaller than it is now, and it was a lot easier to find a good conversation with someone, not to mention fanworks. I'm happy so many people like it now, but looking at the fanfic available I really have to wonder why some of them do, since the characters act nothing like they do in the source material. I'm probably just overly critical, but it's really frustrating to see the same thing recycled over and over again with no real thought put into it. They seem to like taking what makes the original work so well and tossing it out the window so they can write their bad Fruits Basket rip-off, or what have you.
Re: too big 3
Unfortunately. the introspective can be really good, but a bit monotonous after a while...
My condolences. I didn't think I'd seen too many of those around, either, which is somewhat surprising to me, really. Maybe we should try issuing some challenges, we might get lucky.
Yeah, I'm looking to join some good comms , and writing a fic of my own! A challenge or two just might be the thing.
Oh agreed. And having a smaller fandom can help sometimes, too;
Sometimes. And sometimes it turns out like the pre-states release of Gundam Wing...
But I agree, the best fic is often found in fandoms with a lot of conversation; especially discussion about canon and characters.
Re: too big 3
(Anonymous) 2008-03-10 07:34 am (UTC)(link)Agreed. And those tend to be best when they're short.
"Yeah, I'm looking to join some good comms , and writing a fic of my own! A challenge or two just might be the thing."
Well good luck with all of it! I'd try writing my own fic, but I'm hopeless at fiction. Reports, analysis, sure, but fiction, not so much.
"But I agree, the best fic is often found in fandoms with a lot of conversation; especially discussion about canon and characters."
Agreed again. The crappy stuff usually outnumbers the good stuff in any fandom, but when it gets so large, wading through all the badly-written works becomes too much work for so little payoff.
And I'm not sure about the GW fandom-- I used to be in the periphery of it several years back, but I was a very late-comer to it.