Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2016-03-06 03:50 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2016-03-06 03:50 pm
[ SECRET POST #3350 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3350 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #479.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-03-06 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)Everyone who puts their creative products on the Internet for free wants to be praised for it on some level, let's not even lie. The only people who get better through honest reflection are the ones who actively court concrit and are willing to consider it with an open mind. For the rest of 'em, the best route to improvement is practice -- meaning more writing, which they're not gonna do unless they feel encouraged.
Why don't we just cut the BS and say that giving an eviscerating comment makes the reviewer feel better? I mean, seriously, we all get that urge, just own up to it. But if you're just going to feel guilty about it later, then it's better to refrain. Go tear down fics about your NOTPs to get your kicks.
no subject
I couldn't testify as to the general rate of positive responses, but I have noticed that better writers tend to respond more positively to criticism and rude comments. My own policy is to always respond positively, or not at all.
Everyone who puts their creative products on the Internet for free wants to be praised for it on some level, let's not even lie
Sure, but that doesn't say why we should give them praise.
the best route to improvement is practice -- meaning more writing, which they're not gonna do unless they feel encouraged.
While practice is indeed the best route to improvement--it's not a guaranteed route. You have to think critically about what you're doing. Can you honestly say you've never come across an artist or writer who has a decade of creation to view, and hasn't improved in the slightest? I can. Those cases aren't common--usually people improve *some*, even if only a little, but simply creating isn't a guarantee.
You have to be able to acknowledge that something is wrong before you can correct it. If you draw a lumpy head and keep telling yourself it's perfect the way it is, why would you stop drawing the head lumpy? It's perfect after all. It's entirely possible to have a rate of improvement so slow that you'll never become good, or even "competent" before you die of old age.
How's Chris-chan doing with her art? Has E.L James became good yet by pouring out hundreds of thousands of words?
Why don't we just cut the BS and say that giving an eviscerating comment makes the reviewer feel better?
Who has said anything about an eviscerating comment? "Not your best" is hardly eviscerating.
seriously, we all get that urge
Sounds like you're projecting. I've never experienced the urge to leave an "eviscerating" review on a fanfiction. According to you it produces good feelings for you, but I can't imagine feeling anything but embarrassed by writing an inaccurate and emotional critique.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-03-06 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)So your policy is in direct conflict with your experience, meaning that your constantly act against your best interest? Because from what I'm seeing here, it appears you believe that brutal honesty and appealing to people's critical faculties are the path to better quality fanwork, but your course of action would imply that you've never actually followed through on that. I would think that's irrational...
...though I am 100% behind your actual policy, with some tweaks. Here's why:
- Giving direct criticisms can lead to a) writers flouncing, b) you getting ripped apart by fans nurtured in present day hugbox culture, and c) your fandom developing an elitist reputation, driving away potential newbies (true story). It might lead to the writer improving, but probably not.
- Ignoring the bad fic gains you nothing but also has no potential for fallouts. Safe choice.
- Being positive and wording criticisms as encouragements also lead to no fallouts, but might actually get some changes done. You can slip in some concrit if you want to; it all depends on how you put it.
I don't know if Chris-chan or E.L. James ever received any gentle guidance but I am very, very sure that they have both gotten their ample shares of absolutely scathing, embarrassingly public criticism. Has any of that at all improved their capacity to critically think about their art?
If you've never felt the urge to be mean to someone... well, you're a better person than I am! I'm more about not acting on my urges to maximize benefits to myself, though, so I guess I'm okay with that.
no subject
In what way does my policy conflict or go against my best interest? I'm a creator. It's in my best interest to learn to deal with criticism in a polite and graceful manner.
it appears you believe that brutal honesty and appealing to people's critical faculties are the path to better quality fanwork, but your course of action would imply that you've never actually followed through on that.
Nothing brutal about it. I believe accurate and insightful critique is the best path to a creator creating better fanwork. There's no need to be nasty or unnecessarily hurtful about it.
a) writers flouncing
I'll never be so desperate for fic that I'd be upset at losing a badfic producer. I'm a writer--I can produce my own fic if I'm that thirsty.
b) you getting ripped apart by fans nurtured in present day hugbox culture
Luckily, learning to deal with criticism on creations often carries over into other areas of criticism. If you can deal with people telling you your fic sucks, a few fans calling you a meany will roll off your back.
c) your fandom developing an elitist reputation, driving away potential newbies (true story).
It could happen. I believe you that it's happened. But that doesn't mean it's an easy thing to do.
Ignoring the bad fic gains you nothing but also has no potential for fallouts. Safe choice.
No arguments there.
Being positive and wording criticisms as encouragements also lead to no fallouts
It very well could lead to a fallout. Them producing lots of lumpyhead, because not only do they think lumpyhead is smooth, but a dozen other people told them lumpyhead wasn't lumpy either. So why wonder if there's anything that should be done differently for the next lumpyhead?
Has any of that at all improved their capacity to critically think about their art?
I seriously doubt it has. But can you really say the world has lost anything significant if either of those two never created again?
If you've never felt the urge to be mean to someone... well, you're a better person than I am!
I've never felt the urge to be mean to someone over a piece of fiction. It's fiction. What's there to inspire sadistic urges?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-03-07 04:57 am (UTC)(link)Just making negative remarks, particularly vague and entirely subjective ones, doesn't serve any purpose other than making the person commenting feel better about themself at the expense of the author's feelings. Vague negativity isn't even useful to other readers as a review, because it doesn't even say what's wrong with the story, just that some random person wasn't tickled by it.
no subject
It tells how a work measures up to the creator's usual quality and their other works--and some writers can glean insight from that. I agree that the review would have been much more useful if the OP had followed up with the specifics about what made the fic "not your best"--the characterization problems.
The sad thing is that it doesn't sound like it was really a problem with the writing --it sounds like the writer was writing in an old fandom and likely hadn't reviewed the canon in awhile--giving them a weak grasp of the characters.
no subject
Well, what are we talking about here? Rude comments or negative feedback? No one likes rude comments, but let's not act as though every writer immediately flounces once they get a nasty review. Quite a lot take it with a sense of humor (or used to, in any case).
In this specific instance we would have to know the wording of OP's review to get a clear picture, but just saying "this wasn't your best fic, imo" is not rude.
Why don't we just cut the BS and say that giving an eviscerating comment makes the reviewer feel better?
So we went from negative feedback -> rude comment -> eviscerating comment? Not all criticism is eviscerating. And we don't even know what OP's comment actually said. There is so much room between "praise only" feedback and eviscerating negative feedback, but whenever the topic of concrit or negative comments come up people always jump to the worst conclusion. OP's comment was harsh (though "not your best work" isn't necessarily harsh imo, it depends on the wording), but that's a far cry from eviscerating.
(That said, if a comment really is eviscerating then yes, I do agree that it's only done to give the reviewer some sort of smug satisfaction.)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-03-07 06:54 am (UTC)(link)The comment I left, paraphrased: 'I don't think everyone would have abandoned their families like this, this seemed a little main character-centric, what about the rest of the (universe equivalent of army)? They wouldn't let the main character steal that weapon and congratulate them as they walk away. I know you are a good writer but this didn't seem like your best work.'
Is that harsh? I don't know. At the time I felt bad but reading the responses from people up in arms I don't feel as bad about it. It may make me a special snowflake or the fandom police or whatever, but at least I was honest. I regret the bluntness and that's all.