fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3392 ]

[ SECRET POST #3392 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3392 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Eminem]

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03.

[Critical Role]

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04.

[Trailer Park Boys, Julian/Candy]

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05.

[Durarara!!]

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06.

[Monstrous Lovers BL Game]

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07.

(Until Dawn, Game Theory)

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08.

[Yuri!!! On Ice]

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09.

[Sengoku Basara, Toyotomi Hideyoshi/Takenaka Hanbei]

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10.

(Leon: The Professional)

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11.

[Frasier]

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12.

[Marvel's Daredevil]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #485.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Seriously, though:

Is shipping inherently fetishistic and objectionable? Does it depend on whether the relationship in question is non-het?

Depends on how the shipper in question behaves otherwise. If they just ship homosexual ships and don't go around bothering real gay/lesbian/bi people, there's no real harm done. A fetish is not automatically a bad thing.

I'd say that shipping can be fetishistic and objectionable, but it's not inherently so.

In an ideal world, of course, people would be 100% able to separate how they think about their fap/schlick material from how they treat real people in the real world. But we've all seen examples of people who can't, whether it's straight guys expecting women to act like they're porn stars, or straight women going to gay bars to watch the "live-action yaoi."

Yeah, this. I've certainly seen depictions of gay men that make me feel very uncomfortable but most of the time with fanworks and original fiction there's an effort to make them individual characters reacting realistically to their situation.

I hadn't really made that connection but it makes sense to me.
I feel like tinhatters need their own special category too.

Yeah, being attracted to someone and fantasizing about them isn't an excuse to treat them like they aren't a person. That's the key thing. It's normal and okay to feel desire, but it isn't okay to act like someone only exists to fulfill your desire.

Yes, some people are assholes. That doesn't mean the majority of people can't differentiate between fantasy from reality.

Is being attracted to someone and fantasizing about them inherently fetishistic and objectionable?

Well, a lot of the shipping that gets labeled fetishistic comes from people being attracted to characters and fantasizing about them. At the end of the day, it's about fleshing out the fantasies and getting off on them.

But...you can be attracted to real people and fantasize about them. In fact, sexual people do it all the time.

AND there's actually discussion about whether that's wrong. There are people who argue it's objectifying to think sexual thoughts about strangers or the people in your life.

I think the two things are closely related. And I don't think you can say one is fetishistic without saying the other is, too, especially if someone has specific fantasies they always go back to.

Re: But what are your thoughts on ya-

mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com - 2016-04-18 02:07 (UTC) - Expand

I don't really care what you jerk off to as long as its 2D or irl consensual, you treat real people just fine, and don't pretend what you find hot makes you superior to people who find other things hot.

It's not inherently sexual so how could it be inherently fetishistic?

Don't care.

Ship whatever, it's all just porn. I'm not against porn.

Possibly fetishistic, though many of the slashers in question are simply projecting themselves onto the characters, as opposed to being attracted to gay men, or are only attracted to the romance/dynamic (which is why you get so many lesbians who aren't even remotely interested in (gay)men IRL who like slash).

Objectionable? Yeah, the day straight women flood m4m boards en masse spamming every poster with pictures of their vag promising to be the one to "turn" him, asking for them to join her and her boyfriend in a threesome, and suggesting in comments that a good pussy-ing is all these frigid homos need is the day it becomes objectionable.

Lol you have such a raging boner for female victimhood. I swear to god half your comments read like the "LEAVE ~~WOMEN~~ BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!!" meme.

It's pretty apparent you don't run with a large LGBT crowd in real life. Gay bars are literally overrun with women who like to "check out the eye candy" and proposition gay men. On a board aimed at homosexual men I frequent it's a frequent topic that comes up, with gay men who are uncomfortable and unsure how to shut these women down when they become overly persistent that in fact a good "pussy-ing" is something these guys need. The owner of a gay bar near me was wringing his hands because his customers were so angry that the bar has literally become "straight female night" every night instead of the gay male themed bar it started out as, that they were pushing him to implement some sort of "LGBT women only" policy, which he obviously can't very well do.

Just because straight and bi men objectify lesbians doesn't mean straight and bi women get a fucking pass for doing it to gay men. It's literally the exact same bigotry, just gender reversed, and both are wrong. You're using a logical fallacy to try and push this as being "alright", by claiming it's "not as bad". That's not how this works.

Well, you've read at least two of the threads I've ever been involved in.

If you say so, I suppose. If we're matching random anecdote to random anecdote, I just asked a gay friend of mine and a lesbian friend of mine if they'd ever been harassed and/or threatened by straight people wanting to bone them when they put up internet profiles: the gay friend said "never," the lesbian friend said "more times than (she) can count, including rape and death threats."

just because straight and bi men objectify lesbians doesn't mean straight and bi women get a fucking pass for doing it to gay men.

This is literally the opposite of the point I made, so you may wish to either read my comment again, or discontinue. My point was, quite literally, that the fact that gay and bi men do it notwithstanding (which is, again literally, the opposite of "because") this does not mean that they are exactly the equivalent phenomena and should not be treated as such. Up to you, though. Consider me convinced because you used an anecdote and swore, as all righteous people must. Gay men get rape and death threats from straight women for "denying" them sex ad nauseam because sometimes there are fag hags in bars.

Actually, you know what, your misreading of my original statement notwithstanding, I think you do have a point. Just because two things are not equivalent does not mean they aren't both objectionable. I'm wrong about that. Is that's the argument you're making, I agree. If instead the argument you're making is that they're equivalent, I don't.

I don't think it's inherently fetishistic. But...I do agree with the anon who said it's a similar mechanism to porn. I mean, even if you don't like the explicit/hardcore stuff, I do believe it's about gratification, both emotional and sexual, and yeah, I'd be lying if I said I don't find the idea of two guys together hot.

I mean, I need a bit more in my fic, and have emotional investment in the characters, but the visual image is part of the reason.

Off topic: OMG. I just realized this was supposed to be "but what your thoughts on yaoi". I kept reading it as "but what are your thoughts on young adult-"

I thought that was a weird way to try and catch the attention of everyone.

Some people ship in a fetishistic fashion, others don't. But either way it isn't objectionable, because is fiction.

It only becomes objectionable if you (general you) treat other people like objects that should perform the roles you want.

I don't think it's inherently fetishistic, but as with anything there are people who go too far with it. But frankly so long as you're not trying to enforce your fantasies onto real life people I don't care what you ship or like porn-wise.

Not on its own, but it's not hard to find people who are creepy about LGBT people where shipping is a part of it.

It's not the shipping that is objectionable, it's how shippers act around it - how they conduct shipping disputes (do they just "agree to disagree" or do they try to destroy other pairings?), how they act towards their shipping demographic (a slasher's behaviour towards gay men) or actors (RPF shippers).

Fanfic and shipping tropes are also a case of how people think of them outside fiction - one can rape fic and still think rape is terrible. One can read incest and still know IRL incest is almost always bad and abusive. Judging people on their reading tastes is not an accurate window on their morals.

no, depends entirely on the fan

I don't know about those two but it is definitely obsessive on a certain level.

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