[ SECRET POST #3403 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3403 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Yu Yu Hakusho]


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[Silmarillion]


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[Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt]


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[Paul Giamatti]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 023 secrets from Secret Submission Post #486.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

16. http://i.imgur.com/9WG2aTC.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

One, I'm not sure anyone has said that it's the sole reason those ships are less popular. Just that it is one factor that exists.

Two, there are definitely best friend / partner ships that are really, really popular. It's not like antagoniships are the only things that exist. It's just that, again, buddy ships where both characters are white tend to be more popular.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

Two, there are definitely best friend / partner ships that are really, really popular. It's not like antagoniships are the only things that exist.

Just a few examples: Jim/Blair (The Sentinel), Kirk/Spock (TOS), Kirk/McCoy (AOS), Frasier/Ray (either one; due South), Holmes/Watson (ACD, Sherlock, Ritchie, etc.). Buddy ships can be huge!

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. I don't think it's the only factor and I'm not even sure it's a conscious factor for a lot of fans, but I do think it's a factor. I think people are just uncomfortable admitting that or feel defensive because of how fandom tends to be about racism. Of course people can ship what they like, but I don't think there's anything wrong either in examining why so often even when presented with viable alternatives fans tend to glom on to the status quo especially since fans like to complain about the lack of diversity in entertainment whether it's a lack of women's roles or roles for poc's etc., but often don't tend to be all that willing to embrace diversity even when the options are available.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with this. I like some opposition in my slash. I do kinda ship Tony/Rhodey because they have power plays and bicker.

I ship POCs in other ships, though. Sleepy Hollow Abbie and Ichabod, Catherine and Warwick in CSI. Maybe it's just slash that I need some power plays and shit in.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh that's a good third point to bring up: I don't think anyone is saying that all individual shippers are wrong. But if you look at the collective numbers of fanworks, and you look at the patterns across fandoms, there's a definite tendency there.

More power to you tho, do what you do.

[(Anonymous)]

The antagonists over friends seems popular in all ships in fandom (as opposed to non-fandom watchers), so I get what you're saying. I prefer friendship myself so I seem to often be against the tide with fandom ships.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree with this. I hate the "OMG pairing two white dudes again; way to go, fandom" kind of attitude about shipping.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the reason Rey/Finn was not more popular because people shipped Finn with Poe.

[(Anonymous)]

That, and everyone is bracing for it to become canon down the line.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! He first thing I did after watching the movie was lookup Finn/Poe fic! It was pretty much the most popular slash ship on AO3 at the time too, though that may have changed since then.

[diet_poison]

If it's not about race, Rey/Finn was a really bad example.

(Though I agree with the overall sentiment that Foe Yay is a bigger reason why rival ships are more popular.)

[feotakahari]

Harry Potter is a British series, so you have to factor in all the prejudice against Ron for being poor and "low-class."

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, what?

[(Anonymous)]

Also a ginger.

Damnable prejudiced British.

[(Anonymous)]

The only time I've ever heard "ginger prejudice" talked about is from butthurt white people who try to claim it is just as bad as racism and therefore they totally understand what minorities have to deal with. So I'm skeptical as to whether this is actually a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, specially seeing as that's pretty much why Ron is one of the most hated characters.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who loves antagonist relationships I wish this was true. But everywhere I look I see... Stucky. And Johnlock. So while there's some truth to it race seems more plausible.

[(Anonymous)]

Stucky is a bit different because it's not just pure, unsullied friendship. It has angst and conflict, which fandom loves. Bucky was a brainwashed assassin who tried to kill Steve. It's usually things like that, where there could be past angst or issues, that draws people to ships.

[(Anonymous)]

The sad thing is that people are ignoring all the other factors related to the story, characters and their specific relationship with each other in favor of race. Honestly, if you want to make a complaint about race in general, the focus should be on the fact that there are fewer major roles in hollywood for minority characters. This has more to do with it than anything else.

Shipping dynamics have always leaned toward hot guys/gals who are close, get in each other's faces, have heated exchanges etc.

[(Anonymous)]

+1
I see people saying "OMG but look at all these white people buddy ships! They're so popular!" but comparing ships between different fandoms is like apples to oranges - frankly, most shows/movies have a majority of white main characters, and some of those pairings are going to be super popular. The root of the issue is in the number of minority characters, not that people are shipping white pairings because white is so much better.

I'm not sure this argument has that much traction.

[(Anonymous)]

I love at least some conflict in my ships, it's true, but you can be friends and have conflict, have friction, and Harry and Ron do at several points and it's real conflict. I also like it if there are other obstacles to the relationship (workplace issues, opposite sides, age difference, moral stance, disapproval from people they're close to, etc.) But character dynamics and interactions play a part, too. I thinks it's more complex than a lot of people present it.

I fully admit to liking Shawn/Lassiter better than Shawn/Gus and that's because that ship interests me more. And now I feel like I should trot out my multiracial ships just to prove that I don't just ship white guys together. I don't, but a majority of my ships are white guys and I think part of that is numbers. There tend to be more white guys in most casts, so I think there is a somewhat greater possibility of shipping them together. So, I do think race is a factor, in more than one way, but there are a lot of other things going on.

I think it's weird that people seem to want to shame others into shipping something that they don't (I know some people that call attention to the disproportionality aren't, but some are). I do think people should be aware of their biases and occasionally examine why they like the things they like. But that's only going to get anyone so far, because what I like, what you like, what anyone likes is very subjective and not always easily articulated.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't think there's enough minority roles in the first place to make comparisons. I mean, ships that include minorities are few and far between in the first place. Most movies will have like, one black guy tops and like 5 white guys. It's just math.

Maybe there is a racial element to it, but I'm not sure it's possible to tease that apart from all the other character elements that go into what draws people to a ship. There's a whole host of factors.

I will say, though, that I'm surprised so many people ship Cap/Tony over Tony/Rhodey, I mean, Tony and Rhodey have an antagonistic element (Rhodey is the government guy, Tony is the freemarket capitalist guy), and Cap/Iron man is more a comics thing than a movie thing (were they even really developed in the movies at all?) Though Captain America has always been a more central character in the Marvel Universe, arguably, while Rhodey is really just a side character in Iron man.

idk, like I said, millions of factors going into this.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly think Cap/Tony came from the fact that it was a huge comic ship and comic readers brought it over to the fandom and spread it to movie-only fans. I actually think there are more Stucky shippers now than Cap/Tony shippers, at least among MCU-only fans.