fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3417 ]

[ SECRET POST #3417 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3417 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Fushigi Yuugi]

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03.

[Root Double]

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04.

[Hikaru no Go]

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05.

(Corpse Bride)

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06.

[Fushigi Yuugi]

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07.

[Big Hero 6]

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08.

[good mythical morning]

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09. http://i.imgur.com/qr1gRQ8.jpg
[Ship Jumper Webcomic; linked for porn, gay, illustrated]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 09 secrets from Secret Submission Post #488.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I do see what you're saying, but at the same time, don't you think its a little... interesting that so many of the MtF trans community still hold very male social values?

Oh, word?

So you're not eve going to try and engage with me and see where my point is coming from? Just going to troll me with a stock troll response?

0/0

Well, you're a bigot and your arguments are transparently stupid, so i'm not sure what there is to say here really.

you know the entire mtf community, do you?

Where did I say that I did?

I'm just pointing out that they seem to get into this type of shit much much more than other women, or FtM people.

Do you have any statistics on that?

So do lots of other religious or conservative women raised with a background that tells them men are superior and right always. I dont think its about gender, its about experiences

So you think it might be down to (and I don't want to put words in your mouth) MtF people not being able to fully let go of their lived experiences as male, so some of the toxic shit can sometimes still cling to them after they've transitioned? If so I think I would agree, but does this view point count as transphobia? Or should it count as transphobia?

No, it means I think mtf people have different lived experiences from cis women just like ftm people have different lived experiences from cis men. I wouldnt put the blame on them for "being unable to let go" any more than id blame a woman from saudi arabia for having been influenced by their culture. I think the point where it goes into transphobia is when you expect mtfs to be a certain way or think they are any different from other women raised in male value centric environments.

SA

In response to your question whether its transphobic to go

"that I see shit like this and think "Of course you think that way""

based *solely* on the fact that they are mtf without any other information about their life.

Yes. It is. That is transphobic.

But I do have information about their life. The one in the example posted thinks feminism is a dangerous joke that needs to be crushed. Thinks black women complain too much, and in short how every belief I would expect to see in a white male. This is what I know about her, and I think "She still acts like this, why can't she let this shit go" and the only conclusion I have for this woman and the other trans women like her is that she's still drawing from her lived experiences as a white man, and I wonder why so many trans women seem to be the same way compared to cis women and trans men.

Where are you drawing the conclusion that this woman thinks this for the reason you say?

Where are you drawing the conclusion that this is abnormally common for trans women in general?

I'm sorry, you've lost me there.

it means I think mtf people have different lived experiences from cis women

I think the point where it goes into transphobia is when you expect mtfs to be a certain way or think they are any different from other women

These two statements seem to be a contradiction.

Other women who have had similar experiences.

The fact that they have had different experiences is a fact. What they are like in response to those experiences are not set in stone so yes its transphobic to assume they all react the same way.

Example for you.

I can understand why a very religious woman might be more misogynist than others. I can understand that many very religious women are misogynist. I am not going to judge a woman as misogynist solely for being very religious, or look at a misogynist woman and be like "of course you are, you're religious."

You are doing that to trans women.

I am not going to look at a misogynist woman and be like "of course you are, you're religious."

I think this is where we disagree, because I think that's a perfectly normal conclusion to jump to. I don't know if that follows the same logic as what we're talking about here, because there is an obvious intuitive connection between religion and misogyny, where as you would expect people who have suffered oppression as a trans women to be ANTI oppression. Where as it seems that a lot of trans women cling to the old oppressions they inflicted when they lived as men.

We are talking about human beings here, not automatons who follow your ideas about bigotry.

True, but I can't fathom any reason why trans woman would be more likely to be drawn to the wrong side, and trans men would be more likely to be drawn to the right side.

Do you have any compelling evidence to support the idea that this is the case, besides your own anecdotes? I really haven't seen a bit of it from you, which makes you doubt that you have any idea what you're talking about.

It's obvious and intuitive like it's intuitive that all religion is misogyny. /s

You don't know that many trans people.

I'm trans. I know a LOT of trans people. I know trans women who are Catholic Republican conservatives, and trans women who are homeless atheist insurrectionary anarchists. I know trans women who are straight, and trans women who are raging queer.

And I know lots of douchebag chauvinist trans men. LOTS. Seriously, if you aren't seeing it? It's that you don't know that many trans people, plus confirmation bias. And I honestly think you're trolling, or I'd actually be flaming mad right now.

"obvious intuitive connection between religion and misogyny"

Nope. Depends on the religion and how the person chooses to practice it. Many very religious people are very liberal and progressive.

But seeing how you jumped immediately to religion = misogyny and discard all other possibilities, if that's the way you think, I see your problem.

I can't spare the time and effort to argue with someone like that right now. Good talk.

Oh, I absolutely a good person can practice religion in a positive way, but look at the root of the religions themselves, they are all heavily anti women at their root. Less to do with the nature of worship and more to do with the times the religions come from and the preservation elements inherent in any system based on traditions. I'm not saying "Religion=Misogyny" I'm saying all religions we have to day are from a time of overwhelming misogyny, and none of them have updated their core beliefs to correct this. So while religious people can be positive, the religions as they currently exist themselves come from a very wrong place.

That's just how I see it, but I don't want to press you any further. Good talk indeed. thank you for remaining respectful. I understand this is a sensitive topic and I thank you for your respect.

NAYRT

You've repeatedly made the completely unfounded allegation that trans women are notably misogynist, and refused to back it up beyond one Youtube video, and you want to talk about people being respectful?

Are you for real here, motherfucker?

I think this is an assessment that probably does apply to some MtF people, but I think the way you worded the opening post to this thread sounded less reasonable and more knee-jerky and transphobic than this comment. (Assuming you are OP, which I think you are?)

It also appeared pretty wank-baity at the beginning. Maybe it was.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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