[ SECRET POST #3432 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3432 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Flaky Pastry]



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02. http://i.imgur.com/kqv1lD2.gifv
[Homestuck, gif]


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03. [SPOILERS for Fire Emblem Fates]




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04. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]




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05. [SPOILERS for Captain America: Civil War]




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06. [WARNING for all common triggers/general discussion of triggering material]




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07. [WARNING for rape]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #490.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[philstar22]

There are limits to anyone can die in this sort of context. In order to have a satisfying ending, there have to be some characters that are immune from death. If Dany, John, or Tyrion died it would feel like their stories were unfinished and it would be unsatisfying for the readers.

[ariakas]

In order to have a satisfying ending, there have to be some characters that are immune from death

Nah, Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies can be satisfying if it's done well. Anything can be if done well, really.

[philstar22]

I don't think that would be satisfying, at least with Dany and Jon. They've been on specific journeys, and to have those journeys end before they even get where they are headed? That would be unsatisfying for most readers.

[ariakas]

Where is Jon's "journey" headed, exactly? He's right where he should be: facing the real threat to Westeros, the White Walkers. Having him die fighting the real threat to the realm wouldn't be unsatisfying at all.

And sure, just about anybody else would have died for making the same mistakes Dany did in ADWD, in most of Martin's work, but Dany has Plot Armour, because if she doesn't make it back to Westeros her whole arc was pointless. ...But on the other hand, it makes her arc deeply unsatisfying, because we know she can't die no matter what she does. Her getting kidnapped by Dothraki? Yawn. There's no threat. Honestly, if she was killable, that would make for a much tenser, much more interesting arc, because so much of ASoIaF is built around the "anyone can die" concept - which is true in most of Martin's work - which isn't honestly all that spectacular otherwise, in this series.

But anyhow, Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies in this case would mean "white walkers kill everyone" ... which is honestly where I suspected he was going with it in the first, given the rest of his oeuvre. Too many people ignoring the real threat for petty gain = death in many of the rest of his stories. I was looking forward to that, and recent revelations about what the Children did only strengthened the allegory of white walkers = nuclear weapons, "winter" in this case being nuclear winter, but... now that I've realized Jon, Dany, and Tyrion - the three heads of the dragon and GRRM's favourites - can't actually die it's just become another tiresome pandering fantasy where the heroes stroke the author's own ego and there's a whole lot of one-handed typing.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, though.

[(Anonymous)]

People being able to be killed is the only form of tension a story can invoke?

[(Anonymous)]

I hate every character except for Sansa and Davos so much that I'm actively rooting for Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.

[ariakas]

Stannis the One True King of Westeros is dead, following a brutal character assassination at the hands of the tv show writers, so fuck it, Rocks Fall it is!

[(Anonymous)]

stannis stans are the worst. seriously, show stannis is much more likeable and facetted than 2nd hand book stannis who is a non-entity.

[ariakas]

See I agree with you: I didn't like book!Stannis either. I liked show!Stannis... until they made him cross a line GRRM made it amply clear Stannis would never, ever cross.

[(Anonymous)]

It can be satisfying if well done, but the threshold for "well done" gets harder to reach the more investment the audience has in the story and the characters. If the first book had been a standalone, he'd probably be fine. If the first three had been a trilogy, it would've been controversial, but he could still have pulled it off. With an anticipated seven books, particularly when they're being stretched out over so many years because the man writes at the pace of mountains forming?

There might be an author who could manage a Rocks Fall ending and still leave the audience feeling satisfied with the outcome (or at least a significant portion of the audience, because it's fandom and you can't please everyone), but GRRM is not that writer. I think some of the still-beloved characters will die in the end, because the conflict - whether over the throne or against the White Walkers - has been built up enough that an Everyone Lives ending would be equally unsatisfying, but there has to be someone the audience cares about left to walk away from the ashes.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, some characters have to survive, but why do the survivors have to be so obviously visible? Why do the survivors have to be so obviously the author's favourites?

I think Dany's, Jon's or Tyrion's storylines could all end in ways that make sense and still have them dying at the end. Dany especially could die fighting the Others and that would be a perfect ending for her storyline, there's no reason why she'd have to survive the series.

[(Anonymous)]

Tyrion has nothing to do in the books though, his chapters in the last one were an agonizingly boring slog to get through.