[ SECRET POST #3432 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3432 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Flaky Pastry]



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02. http://i.imgur.com/kqv1lD2.gifv
[Homestuck, gif]


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03. [SPOILERS for Fire Emblem Fates]




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04. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]




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05. [SPOILERS for Captain America: Civil War]




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06. [WARNING for all common triggers/general discussion of triggering material]




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07. [WARNING for rape]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #490.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Still incredibly hypocritical for Tony, who caused deaths by creating Ultron and receiving nothing but a slap on the wrist as a result, to try to kill Bucky. He even knows Bucky had literally no control in the matter and he still held him accountable.

Fuck Tony tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

Basically this.

[lady_dragoon]

FUCKING THANK YOU.

You gotta wonder what he would've thought of Miriam Sharpe had she tried to strangle him in the elevator instead of just telling him off for killing her son.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not on Tony's side here, and I don't think anything Tony did past Act 2 was justified, etc etc

BUT

I think it's interesting no one brings up the concept of responsibility regarding AI. Yes, Tony made Ultron... but Tony also made JARVIS and Vision and we're cool with them, because they behave. But if you accept Vision is artificial intelligence and have the capacity for choice and decision-making as a person could, how much is Tony responsible for what he does?

At what point do you consider them really people? If Vision saves the world, does Tony get the credit? If Vision destroys the world, does Tony get the blame?

[lady_dragoon]

I don't think it's the AI people object to as much as using Loki's Scepter, of all things, as the basis for it. Sure, Tony. Use the scepter of a literal God of Mischief to create an AI to protect the world that same god tried to conquer. And as if that wasn't bad enough, he left the final stages of Ultron's creation on automatic pilot for the most part. What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

As for the second part, I think Tony is ultimately responsible for the things his creations end up doing, because unlike real people, AI isn't "born" with a unique soul and sentience completely independent of the parents whose loins he or she (or whatever gender) sprang from. An AI is created from the ground up by a single person who controls literally every component of its construction. If it goes haywire and starts killing people, it's the creator's fault for giving it that kind of power and faulty programming.

[(Anonymous)]

But that argues that essentially Vision is nothing more than a really, really complex computer--and that this is somehow different than what people are.

Tony didn't control every component of Ultron or Vision. He didn't understand either, really--THAT'S REALLY BAD. Please don't misunderstand me, Tony did a bad thing. It's just that, I feel like Vision is a person. If Vision does something bad or good, it was only Vision who made that choice, and not Tony.

I'm not sure how different Ultron is--I'm not saying that it's the same. I'm just saying I'm not sure if it's really different... IIRC, Ultron sorta... made himself? Like Tony was working on him, took a break for the party, and Ultron sort of sprang into being? And Ultron was influenced by some of the things he was hearing/seeing while he was being created... I don't know, it just seems there's a lot of randomness, a lot of chaos.

And then factoring in the idea of true intelligence, true sentience... I can't help but feel that Ultron was effectively his own person.

I don't really have an answer to any of this stuff, though... I'm just kinda thinking, sorry...

[lady_dragoon]

But that argues that essentially Vision is nothing more than a really, really complex computer--and that this is somehow different than what people are.

Well yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I would not consider any of the AIs human, and thus fully responsible for what they do. Their creators are. If JARVIS or Vision saves the world, Tony should get the credit. Likewise, he should get the blame when one of his creations tries to destroy it.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I definitely disagree then.

[(Anonymous)]

>I would not consider any of the AIs human, and thus fully responsible for what they do.<

Wow. Do the world a favor and don't ever have children. You have attachment issues up the ass.

In universe, it is totally recognized that Jarvis, Vision, and Ultron are sentient. Not human, but sentient. People. You are completely wrong.

[lady_dragoon]

Then I guess this entire thread is pointless, then, so take it up with the anon who began it.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's interesting no one brings up the concept of responsibility regarding AI.

I don't have anything to add to this conversation, but I want to say that this is a really interesting point! I love that you've thought about this, and I feel kind of bad that I never really thought about it myself.

[(Anonymous)]

He didn't create Ultron, though, not really. He created a robot suit, then just scanned a magic rock and even specifically quarantined the scan so it wasn't on a server with Internet access. He had absolutely no reason to assume that anything would happen, let alone a genocidal robot

His systems were infected with a magic space virus that he had no reason to expect.

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't everyone tell him it was a bad idea?

[(Anonymous)]

People warned him it was a bad idea, yet he did it anyway. Twice. Also while of sound mind.

He's in no position to demand Bucky, a severely brainwashed and dehumanized government tool, die for something he had no control over.

[(Anonymous)]

They warned him that EXPERIMENTING on it was a bad idea, not scanning it

[(Anonymous)]

In what fucking universe is scanning something and building an AI around it not experimenting?

[(Anonymous)]

He didn't create Ultron, though, not really.

Did we watch the same movie or are you just being a willfully obtuse shithead stan?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

This kind of ultimately content-less abusive reply just makes me inclined to side with the other person by default. Like, the AYRT would have to have a really shitty argument right now (which they do not), in order for me not to consider them to have the high ground.

[(Anonymous)]

A contentless reply to a contentless argument seems fair to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, how dare Tony have a very human, emotional reaction to seeing his parent killed! Instead of getting upset he totally should have rationally thought about his pasts mistakes and made sure he responded in a way that was non-hypocritical, because that's how anyone even remotely sane would have acted in a moment of intense heartbreak and rage, duh!

[(Anonymous)]

There's getting upset and then there's being a fucking asshole. No one sane would start mercilessly wailing on a horribly abused and brainwashed guy that they know is not responsible for his actions. Fuck, Tony practically hunted Bucky (who was trying to get away), trapped him in a cage, then literally kicked him while he was down. You Tony stans are pathetic in how far you will reach to excuse the bullshit he does.

[(Anonymous)]

There's being an asshole, and then there's being an unsympathetic hypocrite. What, do you think that soldiers coming back from war with PTSD are just as shitty as you think Tony is?

[(Anonymous)]

hah, yes, the horribly abused and brainwashed guy who has been attacking police officers, Tony's friends, Tony (trying to shoot him right in the face when he was wearing no armor), etc. Attacking ruthlessly and with no apparent remorse or regret. Poor little abused guy. Let's give him a blankee.