fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3435 ]

[ SECRET POST #3435 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3435 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #491.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Okay, you're talking about someone forgiving someone who hurts them and additionally lying down and taking their shit all over again.

You can forgive someone and still not allow themselves to be an active part of your life, and it certainly doesn't automatically mean you take their bullshit or abuse.

Unfortunately, a lot of people have been raised with the idea that that is exactly what forgiveness is. If you forgive someone, it means everything is peachy again and it's as if the wrongdoing never happened.

It's bullshit, but that's what forgiveness means to a lot of people.

That's literally not what it means. Yes, it implies moving on from a conflict, it doesn't mean "keep doing the bad thing you were doing to me before" - I've never ever heard anyone seriously suggest that as part of the meaning for "forgiveness" because that basically implies that you don't think the person actually did anything wrong, therefore, there's nothing to forgive.

Then you haven't been raised in the environment I have, or other people who are treating it as having that meaning have. Growing up, that was exactly what I was taught forgiveness meant.

I was raised in a family where that's what forgiveness meant. I literally DID NOT KNOW there was any other definition until a few years ago, and then I was totally boggled.

It doesn't matter that it is "literally not what it means."

Some people's families raised them on the wrong definition. Period.

What is so hard to believe about that?

Nobody is denying that but there's some projecting of that experience to everyone else going on here.

If you mean that one not-sure-if-troll trying to project the dictionary onto everyone else and calling them stupid for not immediately unlearning the toxic definition they were raised with, yeah.

I mean the person/people who crop up in every thread where someone shares their definition of "forgiveness" and says "but not me!". I am truly sorry for those individuals' bad experiences, but it doesn't mean those experiences define the general consensus of what the word means.

ETA: I also don't see people saying "you must unlearn your experiences!". You can acknowledge one's experience while also acknowledging that it differs from the norm.

Edited 2016-05-31 18:18 (UTC)

I also don't see people saying "you must unlearn your experiences!".

http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/1424530.html?thread=913409682#cmt913409682

You're welcome.

?? the anon is not telling people to unlearn anything? the person who used the word "unlearn" is the person who is saying they can't do that.

Why are they using the wrong definition of forgiveness when they know it's wrong?

Reading comprehension obviously ain't your strong suit.

Saying people should acknowledge the accepted definition of a word isn't the same as telling them to unlearn their experiences.

Don't you think it's a little unreasonable for people to use words differently from the way they are defined/commonly used and then expect everyone else to know what they mean? Words mean things.

When those words had a completely different meaning to you from the outset because you were raised in an environment so different from reality that it might as well be another fucking planet -- as toxic households very often are -- no, it's not unreasonable.

That's the thing about abuse. It normalizes things that are inherently fucked up, such that you don't even know what the "common" usage really is. You have a hard time believing not everyone was raised that way.

Don't you think it's a little unreasonable for people to use words differently from the way they are defined/commonly used and then expect everyone else to know what they mean?

When those words had a completely different meaning to you...no, it's not unreasonable.

So let me get this straight: it's reasonable to expect people to be mind-readers.

What?

That's the thing about abuse. It normalizes things that are inherently fucked up, such that you don't even know what the "common" usage really is. You have a hard time believing not everyone was raised that way.

Nobody is disputing this?

Edited 2016-06-01 20:05 (UTC)

So let me get this straight: it's reasonable to expect people to be mind-readers.

What?

Nobody is doing that in this thread. People have explained, at length and multiple times, how their background has altered the way they interpret the word "forgiveness." There is one particular anon who refuses to listen and insists people are just being stupid for not immediately unlearning the definition that was beaten into their heads and accepting the dictionary definition.

I literally asked if it was reasonable for people to understand an alternate and not-commonly-accepted meaning for a word in conversation, and you said it was. How else are people even supposed to know what meaning is being used, if not mind-reading? If you jump into a conversation and start using a word that people know, they are going to assume it's being used the commonly used way and not an alternate, unknown definition unless they are told so (and then you have to ask if it's reasonable to expect people to remember that alternate definition instead of using a more correct term).

Accepting the dictionary definition of a word does NOT require unlearning one's experiences. You can consciously use a word the correct way while acknowledging that your experiences have taught you incorrectly. Also, people are all over subthreads pointing out what forgiveness means and saying "well, not for me!" over and over again as though that changes the definition. It feels a bit...derail-y? I don't want to minimize anybody's experiences, but projecting those experiences on everyone else to make it more difficult for them to understand something that might help them or others is pretty unfair.

How else are people even supposed to know what meaning is being used, if not mind-reading?

BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXPLAINED, REPEATEDLY, THE DEFINITION THEY ARE USING. HOLY SHIT, THIS ISN'T HARD.

Accepting the dictionary definition of a word does NOT require unlearning one's experiences.

Yes, it does. When you have been wired from birth to associate a soecific thing with a specific word, in order for the word to mean something else to you (and thus for you to use it correctly on a regular basis), you have to unlearn the meaning you were originally taught.

Also, people are all over subthreads pointing out what forgiveness means and saying "well, not for me!" over and over again as though that changes the definition. It feels a bit...derail-y?

The person who derailed the conversation is the one masturbating with the dictionary, kiddo. You got it backwards.

I don't want to minimize anybody's experiences

And yet, here you fucking are.

... you know, I was going to say that I was sorry you were raised in such a toxic situation, but you know what? You're pretty toxic yourself. No sympathy from me.

You have an awfully loose definition of "toxic" if it includes "pointing out how stupid someone's argument is" and "getting annoyed at having to repeat myself."

But fine by me. I don't want your sympathy.

So again: you think if someone comes into a conversation and says, "I define word with X definition in Y way", people are just all supposed to immediately start using Y definition that isn't actually correct?

How about instead finding correct words to describe a phenomenon? How about talking about your experiences without projecting them onto everyone else?

you have to unlearn the meaning you were originally taught.

Intellectually accepting a correct definition =/= emotionally internalizing it. Come on, anon.

The person who derailed the conversation is the one masturbating with the dictionary, kiddo. You got it backwards.

I'm talking about this whole thread, not just the one subthread. All over the thread people are talking about "I think forgiveness means X" (and quoting a widely accepted definition) and people are responding with "WELL TO ME IT MEANS Y" as though that should change the actual definition, or something.

And don't fucking call me "kiddo". Or are you just being a troll this whole time?

And yet, here you fucking are.

did you read the rest of that sentence or

So again: you think if someone comes into a conversation and says, "I define word with X definition in Y way", people are just all supposed to immediately start using Y definition that isn't actually correct?

No. But they also shouldn't call the person who learned a different definition "stupid."

How about instead finding correct words to describe a phenomenon? How about talking about your experiences without projecting them onto everyone else?

Because for them, that word is the correct one to describe that phenomenon. How about taking your own advice?

I'm talking about this whole thread, not just the one subthread.

SO AM I. Nobody started with the "well the actual definition of forgiveness is this" until after the first few people talked about the toxic version first.

And don't fucking call me "kiddo". Or are you just being a troll this whole time?

I'm calling you "kiddo" because you're acting like a passive-aggressive brat.

did you read the rest of that sentence or

Yes, as well as all your other sentences and you are, in fact, minimizing the fuck out of people's experiences. Knock it off.

Yeah, I'm done. I'm not here to be rudely insulted. bye

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3435 ]

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