fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3443 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3443 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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(Thunderbirds Are Go! 2004 Movie)

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[Top Gear]

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[Chris Hardwick]

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[Dylan O’Brien]

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[A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett]

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[Orphan Black]

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[Captain America Civil War]

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[Drakengard 3]

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[Kiznaiver]

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[Doogie Howser, MD]

Notes:

Early because it's going to be a late day. :c

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Excessive?

for RAPE?

What the actual fuck?!

No, rape ruins peoples lives, there is no rehabilitation for rapists, prison is about keeping them away from women for as long as possible.

Do you live in a society where a woman's chastity is vital to her continued existence?

No? Then, no, rape does not "ruin people's lives." That's a holdover from a culture that considers the raped person sullied and untouchable. Rape was a terrible crime when it meant that the raped woman would be unable to marry, or the raped man emasculated & put to death.

Rape is a form of assault. And as a form of assault it's actually less heinous than maiming someone. It is not "the worst thing that can happen," not to a woman, not to a man, unless society makes it that way by being stupid about it.

But all that is beside my main point, which is that multi-decade prison terms are not necessary to deter violent felonies.

You can be for rehabilitation, like the Norwegians; and prison terms don't have to be 25 years to rehabilitate someone. You can be for a swift death penalty, like the Old Testament; and then you don't have to keep someone in a cage for 25 years.

The present corrections system in the USA is mostly neither of those things--because it was historically designed specifically to use prisoners as slave labour. And when that is the real purpose of the system, then there is an incentive to make terms in prison, and thus in servitude, longer.

Other countries that don't have a slavery-based economy don't have the same kind of long mandatory minimum sentences.

OK no disrespect but I'm pretty sure you can argue against the notion that rape always ruins lives without minimizing rape and arguing that we only treat it as problematic because of the patriarchy. Rape is not the worst thing in human existence. It is a very serious form of assault and violation of bodily autonomy.

And, again, this is not a case where we are deciding between 6 months or 25 years. This is not a case that has anything to do with mandatory minimums. The main point of this discussion is not whether mandatory minimums are necessary to deter felonies. The question is whether or not a sentence of 6 months imprisonment is an appropriate one for rape, and why the sentence handed down in this case differs from the vast majority of cases in the United States. Talking about the broader problems with the criminal justice system is a red herring.

I am at a loss for words for how my view on you has just changed :/

I'm sorry. My response above was neither clever nor well-balanced. I posted rashly.

Rape can ruin someone's life. Statistically, a large minority of women get pregnant from rape. Rape can transmit various chronic diseases.

And yet there are cases at the other extreme: traumatic, infuriating, and yet passing.

I was objecting to the idea that it necessarily ruins lives, which was my misreading what was posted. I'm embarrassed by reacting that way. I shouldn't treat the best case as the norm, and denounce those who talk about the worst case. The worst case is after all generally a serious risk.

In any case, I don't believe that young men who rape are beyond rehabilitation. I also think rape is far more common than people want to accept, and so we have to try to rehabilitate, not just diabolise.

I'm actually mainly upset about "tough on crime" laws, and high levels of incarceration.

Edited 2016-06-08 11:36 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, 15 years is excessive. Where I live we have 25 years as the maximum for anything, though violent criminals are also evaluated based on if they will still pose a threat and may be "locked away" in some form. I believe there are (a few) cases in which this makes sense, but certainly not for every criminal convicted under the very broad term of "rape". This stereotyping of criminals is really something else...

The actual sentence the prosecution was seeking in this case was 6 years, for the record, not 15 or 25 or life.

Sorry, in the Turner case, I mean, it was 6 years they were seeking and they didn't get anything close to it.

Do you live in a society where a woman's chastity is vital to her continued existence?

ok. WHAT.

I wasn't going to reply to any more of your comments but you DO realize this sounds an awful lot like "it was just his penis in you, that's not a big deal, get over it", right?

No, it's not the worst thing that could happen. I'd rather not be killed or brutally tortured. But I don't think there's a lot more on that list tbh. Maiming is also bad, yeah. But that's a pretty low bar.

And if this is just a fight about the legal system and how bad prison is (which I agree with, actually) you picked a really, really bad hill to die on. Rape is still under-prosecuted and under-sentenced as opposed to many more minor crimes we lock people up for, and there's a racial and wealth bias in the justice system which Turner is benefiting from. Honestly, trying to stand up for him here goes against solving justice system problems.

ETA: something else about the chastity comment. It may not be really important for all women (or men) and it certainly shouldn't be something imposed on women by society, but actually to some women chastity is a big deal - including myself. I don't think I can put into words how horrifying the idea of someone forcibly taking that away from me is. It's my choice.

Yes, I'd recover. I'd move on. But I think it would hurt me very deeply. It's an extremely personal violation. My body is my own.

None of that is meant to imply that women who have been sexually active are less affected by rape - only that it's one very personal dimension of the issue to me specifically that I don't want to downplay. Anyway, sexual activity in whatever context is about a person choosing to share their body, in the most intimate way possible, with someone else. Taking away that choice is a deep violation no matter what someone's personally history is.

Edited 2016-06-08 18:09 (UTC)

Thank you. You said this much better than I could.

Actual rape survivor here. Please for the love of all fucks stop perpetuating this "rape ruins lives no matter what" thing. It's that exact sentiment that's hammered into us and forced on survivors that is so fucking damaging.

Rape is bad, yes, but understand that having people act like you're broken because you're not dead enough inside over it happening is a million times more traumatic.

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