fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3468 ]

[ SECRET POST #3468 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3468 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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SA

Found it!

"MY FEMINISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEN. IT IS NOT DEFINED AS ‘EQUALITY FOR ALL GENDERS’. IT ISN’T EVEN ABOUT EQUALITY. I DON’T WANT TO BE EQUAL WITH MEN BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE OR WANT THIS PATRIARCHY MEN HAVE. MY FEMINISM IS ABOUT LIBERATION FOR ALL WOMEN, AND AN END OF THE OPPRESSION OF ALL WOMEN, INCLUDING WOMEN OF COLOR, IMMIGRANTS, LESBIANS, AND TRANS WOMEN. IT IS ABOUT EQUITY- DOING WHAT IS NECESSARY TO ENSURE EVERYONE HAS A QUALITY STANDARD OF LIFE, HAS THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS RESPECTED, AND IS FREE FROM OPPRESSION. I AM NOT INTO DEFINITIONS OF FEMINISM THAT ARE AIMED AT MAKING FEMINISM APPEAR NON-THREATENING TO MEN. IT IS THREATENING TO THEM, AND IT SHOULD BE."

Off her tumblr.

idk are you saying there's something wrong with this quote?

NAYRT

it doesn't follow the shibboleth of saying the words "equality is the goal", so that's presumably the reason, even though in context it's clearly not as though she's saying equality is bad

What's wrong with that? Equality with men shouldn't be the goal. the system they have built around the worship of masculinity is fucked. We're already better than that system. The goal should be to have this recognised.

My main problem with feminism that focuses on equality is: Who or what do we want to be equal with?

Because I do not want to be equal with a black man in america.

Why specifically not?

If the answer is "because they're in a shitty position" then maybe you should consider that we should be working towards their equality too.

So feminism becomes about every social problem facing anyone who's not a white straight male? Or hell you think we need to fight for them too?

No. Fuck that. We have limited resources. We help women, being unfocused helps no-one, so we help women, women of color, trans women, and we let the men take care of their own shit.

I don't actually mean it should be a specific goal of feminism and would in fact argue that it should not. I mean I think you and I as individuals should care about and help with things such as racial inequality instead of saying "man it must suck to be a black man...I think I deserve better than what they're getting, but screw them".

Also, the idea that men should "take care of their own" hasn't worked out very well in practice. There is a very small amount of people with focused activism on things like MGM and male custody battles and then a whole bunch of MRAs, redpillers, etc. And I think the people who do the most to advance the position of black men are groups focused on racial equality, not groups focused on men.

I think we as people are capable of caring about more than one injustice at once. Doesn't mean you have to pour a ton of energy into every single one but it's also not great to actively say you don't care about a given problem and think it is the entire responsibility of a different group of people to fix it. It makes it seem like social justice is a competition.

Edited 2016-07-03 12:07 (UTC)

MGM

What the actual fuck? If you're not talking about the movie studio, you can go straight to hell.

male custody battles

Are not actually a thing. Men get custody in the majority of cases where they seek it. Men don't want custody. If they did the law would come down, as fucking always, in the favor of men. The don't challenge for custody, and when they don't get it they play the victim. It's bullshit, and I'd ask you to stop spreading it, but you seem t believe in MGM so I don't think you will.

You utterly disgust me.

I...wow, whoa, back down a bit please.

What MGM are you talking about? I'm talking about male genital mutilation which is still legal in the United States (I am aware it is banned in many other Western nations). (inb4 BUT FGM IS SO MUCH WORSE! I am aware. But it's also illegal here.)

Honestly I have heard so many people (male and female) talk about custody battles that I have come to believe there is truth to it but that's not a hill I particularly want to die on since I haven't done much research on it.

Hmm yeah that makes me a little uncomfortable. I understand that feminism isn't about appeasing men, but they're still ~50% of the people in the world, and I don't like feminism that tries to tear them down or is totally callous about them. Men don't inherently deserve that just by virtue of being men. Equality SHOULD be the goal, though maybe our perspective needs work - I don't think that equality should look like "making every woman's position identical to men's position as it is now" but rather "evening out privilege so everyone has the same respect and opportunities and masculine people and feminine people and people who are both or neither of those things to whatever degree are all equally valued in society by virtue of being people".

Equality isn't the goal to me. If we're all in an equally shitty position, then that's not good but we're equal. The goal to me is freedom from strict gender roles and their effects.

I think that's also part of it. Maybe we are looking at the word "equality" differently? I mean, if equality is not the goal, then is it acceptable for one group to be privileged over the other or treated as superior at the end of the day?

Equality is still a good thing in itself. I just don't look at it as the ultimate goal. It doesn't have to be the ultimate goal in order to be important. It's just that I prefer to focus on that freedom from strict gender roles I mentioned because I think that equality will come as a happy side-effect of that.

I think you and I have very similar approaches to what is ultimately the same, heh. I guess I see "freedom from gender roles" as something that both assists equality and is inherently good, and vice-versa.

I don't like feminism that tries to tear them down or is totally callous about them.

I don't think that a word of that statement can be read as saying this.

Saying "equality is not the best way to think about our goal" is not a criticism of equality.

I guess we disagree in our interpretations of that statement. Saying it's a good thing for men to be afraid, for example - that strikes me as pretty callous.

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[ SECRET POST #3468 ]

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