fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3473 ]

[ SECRET POST #3473 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3473 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 11 secrets from Secret Submission Post #496.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Loki is abusive towards Thor?

I think it's more the reverse that some writers use:
"Thor is a big mean poopy-head to poor widdle Loki"

"Abusive" isn't exactly the right word, but Loki is fundamentally broken in a way the people around him can't fix, and any attempt to help him just brings more pain down on them. This secret was inspired by a fan who blamed everything on Thor and Odin and seemed to think Loki would stop being broken if they changed their behavior.

I think Odin is largely responsible for Loki being fucked up.

Same. He kidnapped him and lied to him and set him up in a weird pissing contest with Thor that he could never win.

And lets not forget the whole point of the Thor movie is that ODIN FUCKED THOR UP and Jane and Darcy and Erik had to fix him and guide him into being a decent and heroic person. It's not subtle! It's the entire movie!

But considering the current fandom mentality that you're either a 100% irredeemable fuckhead or a 100% pure cinnamon roll incapable of the slightest flaw it's no wonder that everyone conveniently sweeps all of Thor's character arc under the rug and blames everything on Loki.

"Kidnapped" Loki? Or didn't leave the baby to die of exposure as it was intended to?

Hmm, I do have problems with the concept of "fundamentally broken", though. Maybe especially in case of Loki (but otherwise, too).

But, I feel like both arguments sort of simplify things. Poeople get messed up for all sorts of reasons - and yeah, even well-meaning relatives can contribute to that. And then you have innate traits. And the people who will influence you in childhood. etc, etc

seemed to think Loki would stop being broken if they changed their behavior

Yes, that kind of thinking has always irked me. While there can be more nuance to the dynamics, there are a surprising number of fans who will just absolve Loki of any responsibility for any of his behavior and shift the blame entirely to Odin/Thor. So I get what you're saying here.

How is Odin not responsible?

Because Loki is a mentally competent adult who is capable of making his own life choices? If everyone who had a shitty parent became a mass-murdering megalomaniac, we'd all be a lot less concerned about overpopulation.

right, it's not like Odin raised him to hate the people he came from or anything.

Odin was actively attempting to make peace with the Jotunn, iirc, and it was Asgardian society in general that still hated them from the previous war (See: Odin's rage at Thor when Thor, under Loki's prompting, fucks up that peace)

By adopting a child of the enemy who'd been cast out, Odin could either have raised Loki as the public poster boy for all Jotunn in Asgard, which would have had pretty much everyone hating him, OR raise Loki as his own son (second-born and therefore not heir, not because of favoritism), make peace with the Jotunn and take steps towards mending that relationship, and THEN be able to tell his son when the time was right. Either way, he would have screwed up, but he WAS trying to do the way that was kinder to the child Loki.

Loki, prior to discovering his origin, let Jotuns into Asgard and let them murder multiple Asgardians. Then manipulated his brother into invading so he would get banished.

He also seemed to have a perfectly fine relationship with his mother, so there's one parent who was fine.

AYRT

How is Loki not responsible for his own actions? Is he not an adult, with free will, capable of making his own decisions? You might be able to convince me that Odin might bear some responsibility for the way that Loki turned out (more so in fanon, than canon), but he is not actively responsible for Loki as a whole. People make their own decisions on how to act and react. Loki's failing (in the movies, anyway) is that he seems incapable of any self-reflection on his part; his answer is always to blame someone else for his problems.

Odin didn't even really do anything that bad, not bad enough to warrant Loki being such a complete shit head at least.

It's the usual shitty "communication would have avoided a lot of the shit that happened" trope at play more than anything else.

na

Not really, no. I think Odin did the best he could under the circumstances, as someone above pointed out. Loki was doing horrible, destructive things before he found out he was a Jotun, so it wasn't Odin not telling him about his heritage.

It certainly didn't improve the situation, though.

I think the issue is more with Odin bringing up the brothers so there's favouritism between them, not the lying thing. That just pushed Loki over the edge after a lifetime of being made to feel second best. Clearly what happens at the coronation shows Loki had a screw loose before that which people can and have looked into a lot with fanfic etc - there's a lot you can imply from what you see at the start (and from the deleted scenes) but outright abuse isn't really one of them.

By the looks of it I think Thor probably had a hard time living up to his dad as well. It's Shakespearean relationships on a superhero scale - Odin isn't a bad person but he still messed up because life.

Odin exiles Thor for trying to fight the Jotun, rescued Loki as a baby so he didn't die of exposure and tells him he only lied to him because of how deeply he loves him. Obviously he also clearly brought both kids up with issues about how they relate to each other but that's not an excuse for how Loki behaves. As for killing thousands of people on Earth I have no idea why you would think anything in the movies supports anyone but Loki being responsible for that. In the first two films he's pretty much mad with grief and anger and his actions make no logical sense *anyway*. It's a family squabble involving gods, and Loki's emotions are not rational or justifiable.

You're supposed to be able to feel sorry for him or at least what he's become. If you feel that someone else is to blame for what he's done that's just ignoring what's on the screen.

Especially because Thor absolutely does try and reach out to Loki in The Avengers. Directly after which Loki *literally stabs him and throws him off a ledge*.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3473 ]

no subject

no subject

OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP

Re: OP