[ SECRET POST #3507 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3507 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]


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03.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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04.
[Shameless (US Version)]


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05.
[Breaking Bad]


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06.
[Movie: Mr. Right]


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07.
[Sherlock Holmes]


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08.
[Jacob Frye/Maxwell Roth, Assassin's Creed Syndicate]


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09.
[Gravity Rush]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 19 secrets from Secret Submission Post #501.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It's been awhile since I saw the series and yes Jesse's life sucked. And yes he deserved to be free of his shitty relationship with Walt. But he still aided in a major drug trade cartel business which lead to the ruination of other people's lives, you can't pin that all on Walt, Gus, etc.

But that doesn't absolve him of all his sins. Jane's life and the circumstances of her death is his fault. You can blame Walt for not doing anything about it, but remember, Jesse was the one who got ruined her life.

Sorry that I don't think willingly participating - which he did at certain points - in major drug deals that cross state lines deserve some comeuppance? It's not like he just casually smoked pot and did nothing else.

[(Anonymous)]

I find it even stranger that you blame Jesse for Jane's death, of all things. Jane was an adult. Jane made the choice to start using with Jesse - even after Jesse asked her to leave. Jesse was just as much of an addict as Jane, and even more emotionally unstable - after all, he started using meth again because his friend was murdered and he blamed himself. Jane chose to stay, and chose to start using drugs, and then even went out and got heroin herself for them both to use. Jane's death is 100% her fault (well, okay, Walt's fault technically). Sure, if she never met Jesse, chances are she wouldn't be doing drugs. But she made that choice herself. Give Jane some agency, man.

[(Anonymous)]

That is true. Let me rephrase. Jesse had a toxic influence on Jane which inevitably lead to her shitty decisions and her own death through her own choices.

But give Jesse some agency too. At the beginning he was willing to do a lot of the shit he did. Did it spiral out of control and into abuse? Absolutely.

Jesse made his own choices as well. Is he sympathetic? Very much so. As a person, at worst he's a nice guy with a moral center when it comes to the show but he still participated in a drug trade and in fact I seem to remember a scene where he was pushing his meth onto a young gas station clerk when he was free of Walt. He still deserves some legal repercussions. It's not like Skylar who was essentially held hostage from day 1.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I mean, we certainly agree there. Jesse was a bad influence on Jane. If he had never rented that apartment she probably would still be alive. But on the other hand, I'm not going to blame Pokemon Go if I get into a car crash while playing. Jane chose to hang out Jesse, and beyond casual flirting, Jesse never pushed the point. And frankly, chances are that even if Jane hadn't met Jesse, something else would've made her lapse back into drugs. Her resolve can't be that strong, if a flaky drug-dealing sorta-boyfriend is enough to push her over.

I agree that Jesse is responsible for his role in the drug trade. Though, when you bring up Skylar - she wasn't really "held hostage", more like emotionally blackmailed. She was never threatened. She made the active choice not to go to the police, not because she was scared of Walt, but because she didn't want the family to bear the trauma of having a drug dealer in it (both her children, and her police officer brother-in-law especially). Skylar made choices, too.

Whereas what people "deserve" - I don't know. Basically every character broke the law at some point, the show made a huge deal of every character doing criminal acts (Skylar doesn't turn in Walt and even works with him, her boyfriend's tax fraud which she also assisted in, Marie steals shit, Hank abuses his power as a police officer and even beats the shit out of Jesse). Certainly "legally" Jesse deserves consequence. But outside of a legal viewpoint, kind of seems like he was punished enough for his sins where I personally hope he had a happy ending (without dealing drugs anymore).

[(Anonymous)]

Skylar did make choices. But I find her's a little more sympathetic and understandable since she was literally dragged kicking and screaming into the situation with repeated emotional blackmail that Walt inflicted on everyone. As for Ted's Tax fraud, Skylar didn't participate in it either, she just noticed it. She bailed him out by pretending to play dumb and warned him never to pull that shit again.

Again as for the deserving comment, you're right, everyone broke the law. But the difference is, Marie stealing things didn't actively harm anyone. Skylar covering up tax fraud and laundering money didn't really ruin anyone's life but hers and Walt's. Hank, I am admittedly fuzzy on (not to mention my memories are mixed as a result of Dean Norris being on Under The Dome where he is a full blown POS) but you're right he did hospitalize Jesse.

I dunno man. I'm willing to agree to disagree esp since you have a lot of good points. But drug cartels don't just ruin the lives of people in the business. Its the innocent people they sell to or hook on drugs. I don't think it's fair is all and why I have a hard time swallowing the whole Jesse is an innocent angel woobie who did nothing wrong narrative his fans tend to pull. Sympathetic complex character who was in over his head? 100% agree. Innocent? Eh...

[(Anonymous)]

I certainly agree with your last paragraph. Drugs ruin lives, period. Jesse isn't innocent. But by the end of the series, I think Jesse is punished way beyond what a prison sentence would've done, from a moral standpoint, and from a storytelling standpoint, Jesse needed a break in the series finale. Have a character be the kicked dog throughout the entire series and then put the dog down at the end, would be too glum. Especially after the dark captivity arc, I don't think it would've really been satisfying to have him hauled away in a police car, from a purely narrative standpoint. I think the ambiguous final scene was a good compromise.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah, from a story standpoint I get it. It would be exhausting for the kicked dog to get shot in the end. But tbh, from a tone stand point, I don't think it would really be that out of place on the show. Breaking Bad was dark to begin with.

I guess, I just really have a hard time putting my personal feelings aside. Good people do bad things, and he certainly suffered for it greatly. It's just... man, I like Jesse I really do. Chances are if I met him IRL I'd think he's a charming nice guy. But it's not a small time crime he committed, nor was it like he was dealing pot which is relatively harmless. The law doesn't really give a shit about how much your life sucked or your personal tragedies considering that doesn't account for the thousands of lives he potentially ruined. The fact that the writer even says he thinks Jesse deserves a good ending (even if he left it ambiguous) rubs me wrong.

I guess... I just wasn't personally satisfied but I can see why most viewers are. He becomes the audience surrogate and the most morally upright and sympathetic of the people in the business. But that's the thing for me, he was still in the business.

As an aside, thanks for being super civil and willing to discuss our differing viewpoints!

[(Anonymous)]

Jesse did not cause Jane's death. She is an adult who made her own choices. IIRC she was the one who got him back into hard drugs.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I remember her being pretty manipulative too.

[(Anonymous)]

As I said, it's been awhile so my memories are fuzzy so I apologize and I retract my statement.

Jane's actions lead to her own death. Jesse was just an unfortunate toxic influence that entered each others lives at the wrong place and the wrong time. So apologies. I didn't mean to make it sound like Jane was incapable of her own choices just that Jesse played a part. Same with Jane being equally horrible to him.

It was more of a ticking time bomb that who knows how it would've turned out if they hadn't met.