[ SECRET POST #3512 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #502.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

You're trying to argue that there are no inherently masculine traits

No I'm...really not? What? I'm arguing that Ripley's role is written in a very neutral way.

I would say there are male-coded traits, such as overt athleticism or traditionally masculine ways of dressing or carrying yourself. I don't think "being an action sci-fi lead in the 70's" is a male trait...at all. That's like saying a woman can't be feminine while still being in that role which I'd heartily disagree with. (I don't think Ripley is very overtly feminine, either, but my point stands in general.)

[(Anonymous)]

But since you're coming in to this conversation where I'm trying to figure out what female characters fit the "masculine" profile women like the OP look to, won't you yourself provide a specific example, if you're going to shoot down my Ripley suggestion? I'm not overly attached to this idea, you see, but I honestly do want to know what counts as a masculine woman in media. Because to me, characters like Ripley and nearly every character played by Michelle Rodriguez fit the bill, because my criteria is that they inhabit traditionally male roles without additional feminine dressing.

That's like saying a woman can't be feminine while still being in that role which I'd heartily disagree with.

Theoretically yes, but in practice, do they exist? Or are they more of the Barbarella variety?

[diet_poison]

I came into this conversation to talk about Ripley, and the comment I originally replied to was about Ripley. I never made any other claims about other characters.

because my criteria is that they inhabit traditionally male roles without additional feminine dressing.

And I'm making the argument that male roles aren't always written to be masculine. Sometimes they're written to be gender-neutral, which makes sense because "male" is still seen as the default and that was even more true 40 years ago. Basically, I reject your criteria and find it somewhat sexist too - I would not want to be thought of as "masculine" just for playing a role originally written for a dude, because I am not male.

but I honestly do want to know what counts as a masculine woman in media.

There are a few characters I can think of in completely different genres. Rainbow Dash is a good example - she isn't totally masculine but she has some very masculine-coded traits (which don't detract from her femaleness; that's what I love about her). Undyne from Undertale strikes me as being somewhat masculine. Amethyst from SU (though it's arguable she's not really female, but she presents as such). Min from WoT, at least towards the beginning of the series.

I don't watch very many movies, sorry. From my limited experience, I do think it was true then and is still true now that movie leads are generally not written to defy traditional gender roles to a huge extent. Even being more neutral than feminine - in other words, casting a woman as the lead in a sci-fi action movie and not focusing on her gender expression really at all - was definitely pushing boundaries at the time.

Also I kinda get the sense that you're approaching it from a relative point of view - like if there are no characters who are more masculine than Ripley, then Ripley is masculine. I don't think that's true either.