fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3519 ]

[ SECRET POST #3519 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3519 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #503.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

^^^ Yes, I can completely agree with all of what the other person said.

But I think it's also interesting to note that het ships (and to a lesser extent femmslash) are far more often accused of being "problematic" or "abusive" than slash ships--even when they are comparable.

Some examples that come to mind are: Doctor/Female-Companion-of-Choice (co-dependent), CaptainSwan ("abusive" b/c he used to be a villain)

Compare...

BBC!Sherlock/Moriarity (stalkery, abusive, co-dependant), Blaine/Kurt (co-dependant, possessive)

This is even true to a lesser extent with femmslash ships (even though femmslash is rare in fanon and even rarer in canon ). OUAT's SwanQueen ( abusive b/c Regina was a villain) and Rose/Luisa from JTV (co-dependant/ abusive ) have much more ugly discourse surrounding them than Valjean/Javert (co-dependant/ potential to be abusive/enemies) or Merthur (co-dependant/unequal)

A particularly interesting example is Doctor/Master. 10/Master is just as "problematic" as 12/Missy and just as interesting narratively. Yet somehow when the Master re-generated into a woman, all of sudden there was some "12/Missy is abusive and gross" drama.

^And before I get accused of being an apologist, it's important to note that I don't ship any of these pairings. I just find it scary that we can't even seem to have ship- conversations without being tarred and feather as "apologists" and that so much of it seems focused around ships with female characters.

This is a very good point.

I'm only really familiar with your OUAT examples, and don't ship CaptainSwan because (among other reasons) sorry he's still a douche, and while I can see the potential in SwanQueen I won't ship it until the show addresses what Regina did to Henry (her son, not her dad) and especially Graham (so, never, basically) I really can't see shipping Sherlock/Moriarty unless it was rival hatesex/pschological warfare (which would also be interesting to see for SwanQueen and Captain Swan, but I never see either shipped as dark ships. The few shippers I saw acknowlege that Captain Swan had potentisl to be a dark ship were pretty much driven underground. Not sure about SwanQueen; "lesbian true love fairytale" was already going strong as the dominant theme when I started watching.

Wait... which one in 12/Missy is supposed to be the abuser?

I would assume Missy? (Although I'm sure there are some stans out there who believe that she is perf and a kween because she's a woman. The fandom is old, and full of crazy.)

The Doctor/Master thing might be at last partly attributable to fannish attitudes.

The last time there was a Doctor/Master pairing was 10/Simm!Master, in the very beginning of 2010. While there were people who were pointing out that it was abusive, most Doctor/Master shippers were going "yeah, that's what makes it interesting" and writing our fucked-up porn.

Now, sadly, the fandom culture has shifted to where pointing out "problematic" ships is a mainstream activity.

This. The 10/Master fics I used to read were *very* aware that it was extremely fucked up.

I mean, you are probably right that fandom is more protective of female characters and treating them more fragile whereas similar behavior in m/m ships is seen as 'normal' guys being guys, but I'd say m/m shipping attracts just as much bullshit and ship shaming. Even lots of ship wars between m/m despite the very low probabilities of a homosexual ship ever happening. Shipping isn't fun anymore.

On the double standard, I agree. I often see Ivy/Harley presented as the 'healthy' alternative, even if in many comics she's smacked Harley around, verbally degraded her, left her to be caught, etc.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3519 ]

Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)

Re: Is there also a double-standard? (Not OP)