fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3526 ]

[ SECRET POST #3526 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3526 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Feed The Birds, from Mary Poppins]

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03.

(Once Upon A Time)

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04.

[ Dota 2 esport ]

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05.

[Great British Bake Off, series 3]

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06. http://i.imgur.com/82bEEum.png
[The Private Report on My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness; linked for nudity/implied porn, illustrated]

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07.

[We Happy Few]

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08.

[Stranger Things]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #504.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I will start by admitting that when the August poll came up, this was one of the least interesting choices to me. That's not to say it looked SUPER boring, because honestly the August poll had a really really cool lineup and a lot of great-looking books. But I guess as much as I love dragons, I didn't really want to read another typical-sounding dragon story in a typical setting (historical England in the last 200 years).

Boy, was I wrong. I thought the book sounded okay. It was awesome. I think it's one of my favorite BC books we've read so far.

This could be because for me it had a few tropes I really enjoy - humans bonding with specific mythical creatures, for example. The dragon-human bond that was set up in the book was clearly meant to be stronger even than the bond between spouses, which is saying something, though that's lessened a little considering how many marriages of the time were probably shallow and at least somewhat political, if you were born into Laurence's social class. I also love the "random badass women who the MC mistakes for dudes" trope. Dunno why. Blame Mulan maybe?

Anyway, here's a breakdown of what stood out the most to me:

+Laurence. I'll start by saying that at the beginning of the book, Laurence did not impress me. I liked that he was a person of strong character, and that that was portrayed as a positive thing and it set him apart from other characters throughout the book, but otherwise, at the beginning I found him a bit insufferable, clearly very caught up in the expectations and privilege of his social class, and very much the Napoleonic-era-England's version of a Good Old Boy. But what I loved was how, and how much, he changed throughout the book. I think the fact that he shared a deep bond with what could be argued as basically a magical creature makes it more plausible that he changed so much in even a few months. By the end of it some of his major compunctions - having a romance that wasn't about marriage/taking a lover, for example, and accepting people who weren't "gentlemen" (both in terms of gender and class) among his comrades without even really questioning it anymore. It is a testament to the force of his character that he was able to make a positive influence as a newbie in the Corps in such a short time (that, and that everyone was so impressed by Temeraire).

And, of course, Temeraire himself - I love a lot of little things about his character, like how he launched himself from the ship to save the drowning soldier because he wanted to help (not because he wanted to fly away), how he willingly admits he would save Laurence's life even if it meant defying orders, how intelligent he clearly is even for a dragon, and how compassionate he is which may be partly rubbed off from Laurence, and how he at first got very jealous of Laurence. And how he was willing to accept another rider to give Laurence his freedom, towards the beginning. I mean, imagine a very idealized dog in temperament, make it as intelligent as a man, and give it the body of a dragon - there you have Temeraire.

I loved the bit about women being in the Corps, and how it was a secret kept from basically the entire country for fear of retribution. And the bit about dragons having rank in the Corps (I mean, at least Celeritas, but there must be others). Laurence was so afraid of how the Corps was ~different that he imagined them being cruelly hard and demanding, but instead they kept their ways such a secret because they were more progressive than other military/political and social institutions in England, and they were afraid they would meet a lot of rebuke. I know Laurence himself would never have approved as an outside. But I find myself hoping in future books (which I am definitely going to read!) that that stuff comes out in the open a little more - especially wrt female captains! I wonder if any of them have ever been promoted to Admiral or anything like that. Hmm.

I really enjoyed the way it was written too - nothing really special or fancy in terms of prose, but it flowed well, wasn't choppy, and definitely helped me envision the sights and sounds of the dragon coverts, the beasts themselves and all their gear, and the thrill of flying over the land or the ocean. Honestly if I were living in that time period I think I'd love that job myself.

What are your thoughts? Anything more particular you'd like to talk about? Thoughts on the characters or plot? (The plot was cool but nothing particularly special. The only real "twists" - the Frenchman's betrayal [I didn't trust him from the start, for some reason] and Temeraire's sudden but totally expected magical turning point in the climactic battle scene - were predictable to me, though I still enjoyed reading them.)

I hope future books show us more about Laurence's relationship with his family, as well. His dad seems like kind of a dick but I want to see him bow his head and admit that Laurence has done well by his family and his country. I kinda also want to see him make up with Edith, not actually get together with her but at least be friendly - maybe able to be friends of a sort after moving on in a romantic feelings sense. And I want to see Laurence, Berkley, and Harcourt go on adventures together with their dragons and be a big happy family and not have Harcourt be in a relationship with either of the others. (Note on that as well - Harcourt and Jane are the two female captains we see and they are so different. I appreciate the diversity of characters even among a limited audience!)

Totally called Temeraire getting a new power in the final battle, although it was still super cool how it happened. I'm really looking forward to the second book now and seeing the fallout with China - it's on my Kindle :333

I loved the scene where Laurence visits the navy ships to deliver mail and has a very negative reaction to the way they treat dragons and aviators - such a great contrast to his mindset in the first part of the book, when he would have completely agreed with them. Temeraire clearly took some cues from Laurence with his sense of honor and loyalty, but Laurence became a more open-minded person and I just thought it was really cool to see that character development going on between the two of them.

Also, Jane and the way she and Laurence become basically friends with benefits by the end - I feel like he'd neeeever have entertained the idea of such an attachment before, but it suits him when he's in the Corps because he's able to have female companionship with a woman who completely understands his bond with Temeraire and the fact that the dragon comes first. Emily was also really cute, and how he was able to eventually get his mind around treating her the same as the rest of the young cadets. That scene where he comforts her before battle was especially sweet.

This seems like very much an "origin story" plot for Temeraire and Laurence, focusing on their bond and initial character development and the revelation of Temeraire's species and powers. So I'm looking forward to reading the next books and seeing where Novik takes them, for sure. Oh, and I also hope Hollin shows up again - the ground crewman who got promoted to dragon captain on Laurence's recommendation. He was cool and I'd love to see him again with the dragon he harnesses.

Yes, the scene with the navy ships was so good! I felt a bit bad for him though. He's kind of excited to visit his former comrades for a while - even if it's not the same people, it's like, his old culture, his old way of life, he's still kinda wistful for it...and then once he's there he finds it stifling and a bit backwards.

Yes also about Hollin! I think he's great. I hope he forms a great bond with the Winchester he was sent to harness. Speaking of his arc, I found Levitas' death scene really heartbreaking. ;____;

Tangent: really interesting too with Celeritas and how he wanted Rankin to be his handler at first because he was the son/grandson of former handlers, but he couldn't stand him so he pawned him off. I think he really regretted not finding a way to just keep him out of harness when he could. It's interesting and cool to me how much agency dragons have over who their captain is - I mean, handler's not even really a right word. It's more of a partnership. I wonder if the bad experience with Rankin is what caused Celeritas to retire from the harness and become a trainer. I hope to meet other dragons in positions of authority too throughout the story.

I read this for the first time ages ago, but was glad of the excuse to pick it up again. The story holds up to a re-read very well – the world-building in particular is great fun, especially because it combines two of my favourite things, Age of Sail and dragons! I like how the dragons are almost stand-ins for the Navy, in that like enlisted or pressed men, they aren't all that highly regarded, but that they have a great sense of duty and esprit de corps, and do their job so magnificently.

I agree with what you say about the main characters – they're multifaceted and likeable, even though Lawrence is a bit of a dick to Temeraire to begin with. He's a Navy captain, he should know better! But he gets over that very quickly and the strength of his bond with Temeraire is lovely.

One of two nitpicks – I though everyone had quite a similar voice. OK, it's a novel of the early nineteenth century, but the cast of characters is very wide and there could at least be some choice swear-words.

I didn't feel that Granby's initial hostility was sufficiently well-explained – he would surely know that he had to rein that sort of attitude in if he wanted to get ahead?

Also, although it was great to meet a dragon training-master, I felt that Celeritas was falling down on the job. No matter what his sentimental attachment to Levitas' captain was (forget his name) the welfare of the dragon should have come first, firstly for reasons of common humanity (or whatever) and secondly because the country needed its dragons to be operating at peak efficiency. I get why this episode was included, I just think the premise could have been better supported.

Over the years I've read all of the sequels and enjoyed them, but this one is the best IMO. (I'm Australian, and Tongues of Serpents – well, it wasn't edge of the seat stuff, alas!) But I see that my library system has the latest book in the series, so I've ordered it – the summary looks like fanfic at its finest.

Thanks to whoever put this book up on the poll – I had great fun reading it.

I didn't think he was really a dick to Temeraire at first but more that he just had no idea how to treat a dragon properly. He assumed they'd be like a horse - not stupid, but not as smart as a person, requiring a certain amount of maintenance, and existing for its labor. He had no idea what he was really in for!

I think maybe Granby was just immature. That's honestly how it read to me. Maybe he was good friends with...what was his name? The guy who tried to take over Temeraire's harness? and just took the "slight" against his bro too personally.

You raise a good point about Celeritas, but I think he really felt like his hands (forefeet? talons?) were tied. It would have been a huge overstep of his authority to remove a captain already in harness. I see that as more of a problem with the system than with Celeritas. Rankin could have made a really big fuss and caused all kinds of problems. I get the very strong sense that de-harnessing a handler was simply not done; completely unheard of. Celeritas chose to reject him, but Levitas didn't. In fact now that I write that, maybe it was an issue of Levitas' agency? Levitas never once tried to find a better captain. He truly loved Rankin and just wanted his affection returned. That's what made his story and his end so tragic. (Man, I loved Laurence in that scene though...)

Also, Celeritas, like a human character, is not without flaws. I think he deeply regretted not making more of an effort towards putting Rankin out of harness completely when he rejected him. But it was kind of a "the damage has been done" situation.

Now that Laurence has interfered with his ability to find a new dragon, I hope he never gets in a harness again.

August definitely had a hard choice when picking the book and this wasn't my top choice as well, but I enjoyed. I'm more excited about September just because caerbannog was so excited for it.

So I just finished reading this book and I did really enjoy it.

I loved the set up of the dragons and really liked Laurence and Temeraire. Their partnership felt authentic if that makes sense.

I agree with the way it was written, it was a smooth story. I felt the only thing that really lacked was the battle scenes. I felt there was a lot of build up about the history of the dragons and then the battle seemed a bit rushed, but knowing that this is a trilogy, I think if I read the other books as well I'd have a better feel for the pacing.

I did like Jane and Harcourt a lot too and understand why there were so few females in general in the story, honestly I felt like the story was pretty much just all Laurence and Temeraire and honestly, I'm all okay with that.

At first I thought Novik simply wasn't going to write female characters (except obvious side characters like the MC's mom and ex-girlfriend, who exist just to add characterization to the MC) and was a little puzzled by it, given that the author is female, but I think she was trying to find a way to write them in while still a. keeping it an action and military oriented story and b. staying true to the time period. I thought it was clever how she did it and really cool how she built up to it and surprised the readers. I expected some of the more major plot twists, but I didn't see the female captains thing coming! (I did earlier in the book wonder if there would be any but then dismissed it when Laurence just kept talking about all the guys at the covert.)

I agree about battle scenes. They didn't seem to be her forte. They were fine, but not the most skilled I've seen them written. Part of it I think is the difficult of incorporating military tactics in with creatures/vessels and don't actually really exist. It didn't really take away from the story for me though. Maybe they'll get better in the sequels? (which I will definitely be reading!)

The overall pacing felt fine to me, though.

And yeah, the focus of the story was the bond between Laurence and Temeraire and that's awesome and good. Why not make that the main relationship? I hope that continues to be the case until the end. Romance is well and good, but this story is just about a man and his dragon - alternately, a dragon and his man. <3

Honestly, it didn't phase me that much that there weren't a lot of female characters simply because so much of the story was about Laurence and Temeraire that I didn't really pay much attention to any of the other characters. I'm really okay with that too because I loved their interactions. It sort of reminded me of Timothy Zahn's Dragonback series, at least the relationship between master and dragon. (two very different stories, but still)

I am also hoping that the other books don't contain much romance. I think it helped that Laurence is a proper gentleman, so a lot of things are filtered through him.

Overall this was a good choice for the book club and I can't say I was disappointed.

Anon who was talking about the Navy upthread agrees about the difficulty of getting female characters into this kind of story. I think Novik did a good job with it - in fact, trying to remember the later books, I'm not sure if any other countries had female captains? Short of a twist like that, it really is hard putting women into such stories. I'm writing Age of Sail at the moment, and am refusing to write a cheesy shipboard romance, which leaves me not a great deal to work with!

I definitely agree that she did a good job! And I read some of the trivia at the end that indicated that Longwings are a British breed so we don't have any particular reason to believe other countries have female captains. I'd honestly love to see some other countries' captains' reactions to learning about Harcourt and Jane though!

Don't spoil me for the later books! I'm definitely planning on reading them! Read the first chapter preview for Throne of Jade at the end of the edition of HMD that I got and am definitely looking forward to it. I predicted even before I started reading that the second book would take place at least partially in China based on the title and cover art, which is super exciting because we don't see as much of them in this historical period in literature as we do Europe and I think Chinese history is really interesting too. After reading that chapter, yeah, there's no way that's not happening! I'm looking forward to it for sure.

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[ SECRET POST #3526 ]

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