fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3526 ]

[ SECRET POST #3526 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3526 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Feed The Birds, from Mary Poppins]

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03.

(Once Upon A Time)

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04.

[ Dota 2 esport ]

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05.

[Great British Bake Off, series 3]

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06. http://i.imgur.com/82bEEum.png
[The Private Report on My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness; linked for nudity/implied porn, illustrated]

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07.

[We Happy Few]

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08.

[Stranger Things]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #504.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I've come to complain!

To be fair, I have only read the first three chapters and then I simply couldn't take it anymore. However, I still have something to say about those. So here goes.

Are human beings really so desperate for subservient species that the usual livestock and pets are not enough anymore?

Apparently yes, because we need more. We need mythical, intelligent, incredibly powerful and speaking(!) creatures, who we then treat as weaponized cattle, with no qualms whatsoever. What the fuck? Seriously, what the fuck? Unless, of course, they refuse to be harnessed, in which case they will be treated as non-weaponized cattle.

So, dragons are able to speak multiple human languages and understand the world around them to an astonishing degree straight out of the egg, with some non-sensical exceptions, yes, but compared to a newborn human baby, that's huge. Why would creatures who are physically much more powerful than humans, and - I think it's safe to assume that a dragon's mental abilities will grow with age as well - and at least equal on an intellectual level voluntarily(!) enter into human service? And I'm being nice calling it 'service'. It's ownership. It's slavery. And I'm calling it slavery, because an 'animal' which is that intelligent and can communicate with humans on this level, is not a fucking cow.

How does that make sense? And is Novik seriously expecting me to think that's cool? You've got be kidding me.

I hope the author is just a hack, because I don't even want to think about the implications, if she is actually trying to use the human-dragon thing as an allegory. Boo, you bore!

And oh, the predictability of it all. Right from the start, it's clear what's going to happen and who the hero is. No doubt. When the captain didn't 'win' the draw, I was actually pleasantly surprised and had some hope. It wouldn't have been innovative or inspired, but it would have been at least a little bit more interesting, especially with the protagonist in a more passive/observer/mentor role. But nope. Even though he didn't win the draw. He is just so special, with his special hair and special specialness, that the dragon chooses him anyway, because of their special connection. Uuuhhh, is this going to go in the Pounded In The Butt By My Own Dragon direction?

Does Novik think she's being subtle here? You're not being subtle, sis. This book wouldn't know subtle, if subtle got seasick on it. I would have more respect for her choices as an author, if she had just been honest with herself and her readers without the whole Let Chance/Fate Decide spiel and then going back on it. Seriously, you are not fooling anyone.

I could have ignored my ethical misgivings and the painful boredom I felt during my reading experience a bit more, if I had seen any redeeming quality in the story itself. But there is nothing. The characters, including the hero, are flatter than crêpes. The hinted conflicts and struggles are empty. There is nothing substantial or genuine about them.

We are told that it's such a social, financial, psychological etc. hardship to be a dragon rider, but none of that is actually shown in the actions/thoughts/behaviour of the protagonist or the plot. He may say he has regrets, but what are those? There are no details. Does he resent the loss of his social position, losing contact with family and friends, losing the rank of captain he probably worked years to achieve, the dream of a specific future? And how does that manifest for this particular character? I get nothing.

I'm supposed to believe he is strongly affected by the change in his life, but I see no evidence of it in the text. It's all just a pro forma, poor, vague substitute for conflict and tension. Is that empty nonsense, combined with the inelegant info-dropping and the tedious, lifeless prose supposed to hold my attention?

Does she think her readers are magpies? Look at the shiny, stupid* little birdy. Look at the shiny speaking(!) dragon and ignore my poor plotting skills and my cardboard excuses for characters.

While reading I wanted to tell that dragon only one thing: Why are you listening to this mofo? Have some self-respect.

The only thing that could have saved this clusterfuck of a novel - and I'm being nice again, calling it a 'novel' - would have been, if the human heroes turned out to be the true villains of the piece. And there would have been a great, big, hopefully violent uprising of the dragons overthrowing the yoke of human oppression and ending the senseless suffering of all dragonkind. And maybe Laurence The Flop learns something and joins the revolution. Or, you know, some actual conflict.

If this or something similar actually happens, please spoil me, and I will humbly take back everything I said. Okay no, not everything, but I will make concessions! However, since what I've read so far has inspired me with no faith in this author whatsoever, I won't bother to find out.

And above all, it's not even a little bit entertaining! It took me 4 weeks to read those 3 chapters. 4 sodding weeks!

Dishonour on your cow, Novik! Go home, Novik! If I had a physical copy of your book, I would throw it in a dumpster!

Now I feel better. :D

And kudos to the person who originally suggested it, because I've found heaps of things to discuss in only three useless and boring chapters. And I haven't read a book that made me so angry since the beginning of the year. So yay, it certainly didn't leave me indifferent.

I hope everyone else had a better time with this book than I did.

Complaint completed.

_{*real life magpies are neither stupid nor thieving, I'm only using those stereotypes in a humorous context}

tl,dr: I despise this book for a variety of reasons.

Lol I wasn't even the biggest fan of the book itself but did you just seriously complain that the main character was obviously the main character?

And I really don't think you are qualified to judge the character and plot development if you only read the first three chapters, sorry. That's like watching only the first fifteen minutes of Star Wars and the going "Well I didn't really watch it but it sure sucks that they didn't even destroy the Death Star and ugh, why did that boring old man even survive?".

By no means. I complained that it was a) entirely obvious that the main character would get the dragon and that it was b) therefore entirely unnecessary to have the draw in the first place. It's superfluous fluff.

I also didn't say anything about character or plot ~development, I said that the characters were flat and empty and the plot poor in those first three chapters (which are still over 50 pages, a perfectly reasonable chunk of a book to judge, if it's worth reading or not).

I don't see your problem.

I think the draw was done for MC development too. He went through an emotional roller coaster that week.

"If this or something similar actually happens, please spoil me, and I will humbly take back everything I said."

Yes.

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Not so much in the first book, which is pretty much straight military, but starting from the second they move out of Europe and see:

China: dragons have a LOT more agency in general society, earn wages, pick their captains as young adults
Africa: dragon kings!
South America: dragons hoard up people like treasure
North America: canny dragon merchants
Australia: a dragon egg is stolen and circulated through all the aboriginal tribes specifically so she can learn all their dialects in the shell and stand as translator
Russia: dragons get treated like shit, then they get loose. It... doesn't go well.

Also also, Temeraire - and Laurence - agitate for dragon’s rights, a lot of learning experiences are had, and meanwhile in France there's something similar going on...

"who we then treat as weaponized cattle"

This would be one of the central themes of the series - whether it is right, or even practical, to do so; how does one change it; what other ways could dragons, with their tendency to bond hard with people, work with society, and how do they live on their own?

It's okay to be annoyed about the initial attitudes to harnessing dragons. It gets discussed. (If you don't like the viewpoint character or the prose, eh, people like what they like.)

ayrt

You're the same anon from the comment directly above, right?

That's really good to know about the different treatment of dragons in different places and cultures.

My problem is that I see no potential for that in what I have read so far. It's not so much that I absolutely need the full Freedom For All Dragons thing (ideally yes, but not necessarily). I don't even see the potential for questioning the human-dragon situation in the first place.

Novik opened a can of worms, when she decided to have a speaking dragon, that's on her, but that's not really the problem. It would have been all right, if she clearly showed or even just implied that dragons are more or less the same to her as other animals in a human-animal hierarchy and the situation is therefore justified. I wouldn't have agreed with her, but it would have been fine from a storytelling perspective. Because the whole voluntarily being harnessed thing is a cop-out that doesn't address anything.

Treating this as a non-issue however, which she does in the first 50+ pages, is a writing fail. And what I've seen doesn't convince me that she is able to handle anything of the sort in a thoughtful, sensible and intelligent manner.

But I'm glad to hear that she addresses and handles it further down the line. That makes me much less uncomfortable about the whole thing. So thanks for telling me! :)

Me not liking the protagonist is not really the problem either. I love or even just enjoyed plenty of books with protagonists I didn't like. But it bugs me that he is mostly an empty non-entity. His whole person seems ingenuine to me.

South America: dragons hoard up people like treasure
LOL. How does this work exactly? Are they dead bodies or do they curl up on a pile of living people like on a pile of gold? Wouldn't they get crushed? Or am I imagining this wrong?

Yes, that was me.

"South America: dragons hoard up people like treasure
LOL. How does this work exactly? Are they dead bodies or do they curl up on a pile of living people like on a pile of gold?"

There was a smallpox epidemic that cut down the human population drastically. In this universe the draconic impulse to feel attached to people (and be possessive about other things) is very strong. In this case, what with the sickness, dragons attached to ayllu (sort of like clans) love and adore and guard their precious few human members and sometimes kidnap them from other dragons. Mostly they farm.

"My problem is that I see no potential for that in what I have read so far... Treating this as a non-issue however, which she does in the first 50+ pages, is a writing fail."

What can I say? Novik writes a lot of slow burn for her big plots. The start of the book is looking at Laurence and the naval view of dragons and aviators - giving the situation a solid grounding before deviating from it. He hits a lot of culture shock when he reaches the training ground and how aviators view dragons and what they're really like. There's a lot of leisurely exploration of the world, plus friendship and a bit of action. He and Temeraire gradually become more dissatisfied with How Things Are Done. Slow burn is a lot of what Novik ^does.

If the pace didn't work for you, I'm sorry. It's a book I love, but not everything works for everybody.

Ah, yes, that's certainly less sinister than what I imagined. :)

Pacing is a good point though. Her pacing didn't work for me at all (besides my other issues with characters and style), too slow of a slow burn. I guess I would have needed a discernible undercurrent beneath the beginning, which reads like a glorification of the status quo. But I'm glad the status does get challenged later on.

And maybe her pacing is more normal for series? That the books work better together as a whole than as indivual pieces? I honestly don't know, I don't read series.

In any case, thank you for all the info!

Welcome.

I...really do not know what to say to this. At all.

Like I can respond to a few individual criticisms but to be completely honest I think you are doing the story a bit of an injustice by drawing a lot of conclusions without reading it all through. Certainly you didn't have to read it all, but it's not fair to definitively say, for example, that the main character has no nuance, or that he had no regrets, when those things are in fact shown later in the story and you just didn't get there :/

Also I don't think the author was trying to be subtle, and I do think the story is very tropey. I think those things are okay, and it's possible to enjoy a story with those qualities (though it's also perfectly okay if it's not your bag).

ETA: to be clear I'm not upset that you made this comment - not at all; I'm glad you did because it generated a lot of discussion! (maybe that's the key? to have someone who hates the book post every month? at least it would be nice to have a devil's advocate sort of thing going on...hmm) I also would like to respond to it in more detail if you want me to but I don't want to come across like I'm resentful of you not liking it (not the case at all) or unnecessarily argumentative. :P

Edited 2016-08-30 23:06 (UTC)

Well, tbh I didn't expect to get any answer at all, much less several.

I mean, I posted the following day and it's a very long, very ranty comment in overly impassioned language. And I used phrases like 'Boo, you bore!' and 'Dishonour on your cow!' and a footnote about magpies as if I was actually afraid of offending the magpies that live in my garden, so I thought it would be obvious that it's not a serious comment. Or maybe the swearing made it look more serious? I don't know.

I was frustrated with a cultural product and love arguing about books, so I wrote those frustrations down in a comment and then sent it off into the world, which is pretty much the purpose of FS. I wouldn't have written anything like this in a 'proper' book review (I wouldn't have reviewed it in the first place) or any professional or educational context.

The sentiment behind the comment is certainly genuine (I do think the book is terrible and the author a hack) but the comment itself is one third snark, one third joking, and one third personal catharsis. And I am definitely being unnecessarily argumentative and unjust on purpose! :D

I certainly didn't expect anyone to bother and defend the book and convince me it's great. That's not going to happen. And I'm not talking about the specific plot or character development, you and the other commenters are perfectly right in that regard (even if I still say that's not what I did or at least not what I intented), I can't judge that. But I can judge the author's grasp on her own plot and characters and how she handles both and her writing on the chapters I've read, because it's extremely unlikely to change in the rest of her book.

For example, the narrative often tried to tell me 'Look at the protagonist, he's feeling strong feelings!' but I simply didn't find it believable, I didn't buy it from what the text shows me. But I'm aware, of course, that lots of other people do buy it. What I mean is that the way how she works as a writer, how she creates and handles characters, plot etc. and how she expresses that in words is subpar to me, and that doesn't really change over the course of a book, no matter what developments the characters and plot go through. (For many writers it sadly doesn't change throughout their whole career, but that's me being mean.)

I also didn't want to convince anyone who liked the book that it's bad. I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Although I am pleased that it fuelled the discussion to some degree. \o/

I find it a bit sad that people seem to be more passionate about suggesting books and advertising* them than actually talking about them.

So, a detailed response is definitely not necessary. Unless you want to rant right back, then, of course, please feel free do so.

_{*The campaign of the user with the rabbit icon and the name that looks like carebear was awesome and definitely created a lot of extra attention.}

I'm having similar feelings about the current book, but I'm determined to get right through it before I post about it because it might suddenly click for me.

You mean Graceling, yes?

Then you are certainly more patient than I am. :) I mean, almost 500 pages, wow. Where are you right now, almost finished or still somewhere at the beginning?

The carebear rabbit user was so cute, hilarious and enthusiastic about it that I really hope it will live up to their expectations, but to me personally the synopsis sounds terrible. Although tbf most synopses sound terrible. Maybe I'll check out a free sample chapter online later in September, but I'll probably skip this month and hope the choice for October will be more up my alley.

Other than still feeling like it's a little unfair to just...assume nothing changes without reading the book...that's all fair, you like what you like I suppose. Nah, I'm not going to go on a counter-rant, because while I liked the book a lot I don't particularly care that someone else doesn't like it :P

Also do you actually have magpies in your garden? That's awesome and I'm kind of jealous.

Fair enough! :)

Yes, I have. Although I'm not entirely sure they live there 24/7, but one of the big trees in the back is pretty much magpie central and their twitter totally dominates the soundscape in the morning. You can hear other birds later in the day as well, but morning is magpie time. I'm also pretty convinced there must be a nightingale around somewhere, even though it's rather unlikely and I'm not that good at telling the different voices of birds apart.

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[ SECRET POST #3526 ]

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