[ SECRET POST #461 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #461 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Update on the LJ situation.

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #066.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

1. Translation: I'm an uber gawth who supports all the villains 'cause the darkness is AWESOME and I hate those goody-two shoes main characters! Why doesn't anyone understand my angsty soul? (P.S. SLYTHERPRIIIIDE!)

[lennoxmacbeth.livejournal.com]

(Not OP, just a baddie-fan) Just to be fair, some of us love the baddies and really don't like the "uber gawths" at all. XP

[electricalsun.livejournal.com]

Your Richard icon backs up your point quite nicely.

Fuck YES.

[lennoxmacbeth.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :D I do my best to use appropriate icons, unless I'm being intentionally inappropriate. :D

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, just your average, garden-variety little megalomaniac.

(Also, no goths would ever support the villains on the show the secret refers to because they are all campy dips. But they're fun campy dips.)

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

So, moral relativism = gothy angst?

Wow.

[vivalanaomi.livejournal.com]

Hm, I'm sympathetic with liking villains, but "I always wanted them to win and to take over the world" doesn't really seem like moral relativity to me. It's still a binary system of one side over the other, only the OP is on a different side.

And I wouldn't call it post-modern either, because "Hello Blake on Paradise Lost".

[(Anonymous)]

I admit, I kind of lol'd at the "I like villains and that makes me smrt" logic.

[vivalanaomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I mean, I love Azula like nobody's business, but that doesn't make me SO PO-MO, OMG!

And I honestly think if most of these villains actually succeeded in taking over the world, they'd have no idea what to do with it, and would likely be defeated by a coup who would be equally totalitarian and wrong-headed, taking advantage of the now shattered structure.

[drworm.livejournal.com]

And I honestly think if most of these villains actually succeeded in taking over the world, they'd have no idea what to do with it

So why the fuck are they villainous? Why are they a threat if they're so incompetent? See, this is why I understand wanting the villains to win, because that creates real conflict in which there is an actual possibility of the so-called "good guys" being defeated. If we know that the text and the narrative will not let the "heroes" lose, will not even let things end in a stalemate most of the time, then any power there might be in the story is lost.

[vivalanaomi.livejournal.com]

Well, actually, they are often shown to be not that competent. Usually they're in prison by the end of the episode, which, of course is due to narrative necessity many times. But many more times, if it weren't for narrative necessity, the heroes would have just killed them when they were down, or at least locked them in a decent cell. Maybe surrounded with flesh-eating dolphins or SOMETHING, hello please?

This is difficult, because we are going by many different canons here. Some "villains" will likely be more morally upright than others, and some will be more intelligent. But it doesn't take a great deal of competency to be a threat, I would argue. Just one person with a firearm can create devastating damage. And being an excellent threat may not translate to the ability to rule and control an unwilling populace, or to stave off counter-attacks. Lex Luthor, even, a very smart and charismatic man, survived three years into his first term when he was president, stepping down due to a scandal or something. I dunno. He was doing something EVIL and got caught, I think?

But I agree with your last point. My favorite series are the ones where the villains win, if not at the end, then at least at significant climaxes of the text. It increases intrigue, character development, awesomeness, etc. I am also not arguing that the heroes should always win; the best anime out there has some pretty downer endings.

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Notice that it says there is no true good or evil. With such a philosophy, it's difficult to know who the "villains" actually are. The whole point is questioning what actually defines "good" and "bad." Ergo, one does not merely glorify those designated by the framing of the text as villains; one may also look for that which is villainous within the "good" characters... while still acknowledging the evil the villains do.

To wish for the villains to win is contrariness brought on by repetitive narrative standards, in which the questionable deeds of the "good" are never questioned and the villain exists only to be defeated.

Seriously, read a real fucking book sometime.

[twelve.livejournal.com]

To wish for the villains to win is contrariness brought on by repetitive narrative standards, in which the questionable deeds of the "good" are never questioned and the villain exists only to be defeated.

My sentiments exactly! Thank you for putting those in words I never could have aptly expressed myself. :)

[tulleskirt.livejournal.com]

Ergo, one does not merely glorify those designated by the framing of the text as villains

I wish I could believe you, but the secret-maker references them specifically as "bad guys." And to me, that lessens the impressiveness of meshing moral relativism with a fandom that apparently doesn't foster it. It makes it seem like s/he is doing the same thing as automatically rooting for the "good guys"...just reversed. But I could be wrong.

Quite frankly though, I don't blame the original anon comment for being snarky. Most people who go for "bad" characters on the internet are I'm-ever-so-alternative pseudo-deep types.

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Or they were trying to write a secret as opposed to a dissertation, for fuck's sake. Oh no, it's not a wall of text perfectly outlining every aspect of some fandom moral philosophy!

Seriously, this is just getting retarded.

But I could be wrong.

No way.

[tulleskirt.livejournal.com]

Jesus, dude, all right. Bit ironic of you to cry "it's not a dissertation" when you posted a sentence like, "one may also look for that which is villainous within the "good" characters... while still acknowledging the evil the villains do"--a very accurate statement, I might add. All I'm saying is, I don't totally believe the secret-poster is as free-thinking as you apparently do. And--as I said with honesty, but obviously that didn't sway you--I could be wrong. Not like I know the person personally.

[tulleskirt.livejournal.com]

HTML: I fail at it. D:

[(Anonymous)]

I love you. ♥

[(Anonymous)]

ur a cunt &hearts

[(Anonymous)]

♥!

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

Weeeeell, I love Joker and Catwoman and Poison Ivy and they're villains, but well, I'm definitely not GAWTH about it. ;)

And plus, there's always the possibility that though Batman will save the day, I don't think Joker's going to let him win too easily. Guy's got too much of a knowledge of chemistry and tricks.

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Batman villains tend to be the anti-goth... I mean, they're just so colorful!

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

Well, the Heath Ledger Joker is going to be another damn cult classic figure among the goths (Thank you, Brandon Lee, for encouraging them in the first place) and Joker was inspired by a rather goth-y looking clownish character (Hell, Conrad Veidt is practically the goth idol), but good lord. Typical, straight-up Joker? Bright and goofy as they come.

[mikkeneko.livejournal.com]

^ This.

FAIL

[cleverthylacine]

I don't even think that picture is from Harry Potter.

Impressive, Gryffindork, sign your name next time?