fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #464 ]

[ SECRET POST #464 ]

⌈ Secret Post #464 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 379 secrets from Secret Submission Post #067.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 (twice) 5 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

42: Wow, so Hinata fails less and gives up less and contributes to the plot less than Sakura?

What series have you been reading?

She doesn't fail less, but at least she tried. In the Chuunin exam she got the first 4/5ths of a My Name is Inigo Montoya moment against Neji, and that made the fight between Naruto and Neji more personal. It's not a mad contribution to the plot, but it's something, unlike Sakura who stood around uselessly holding a Kunai for two hundred and seventy chapters. yeah, Sakura did actually do something after the timeskip, but given the amount of screentime she's had compared to the amount relegated to Hinata? The ratio is way the fuck off.

Goodness, because I seem to remember Sakura cutting off her hair and fighting, and standing in front of the man they were hired to protect when attacks were thrown his way, and walking up trees faster than Naruto and Sasuke combined. I remember her actually having the guts to not only talk to crush, but to come to care for him in a real way. I remember Sakura being born without any spectacular bloodline, no super duper magic eye powers, and I remember her becoming a fantastic fighter so far despite that.

I also remember Hinata getting her ass kicked and almost dying, then standing around and telling herself she'll get stronger. Which is, you know, exactly what Sakura had already done. Yeah, that's.. about it, too.

Oh no but you're right, she's totally more of a character than Sakura, lets lynch those dumb vapid whores who like her best. Their opinion is so wrong.

IAWTC so much.

Amen to that.

8DD!

Ummmm...I disagree with both OP and you guys. Hinata AND Sakura are both extremely strong girls who are not only fierce, but caring, protective, and determined. If you all can't see that in either of them, then I'm wondering what series you are reading ><.
Naruto is a series about working hard to become acknowledged, remember that.

Although I have to say Kishi is kind of sucking right now at developing them because all he cares about is Uchiha supremecy...

Naruto is a series about working hard to become acknowledged, remember that.

That's what it was initially, but then it very quickly turned into 'if you aren't born of a powerful ninja or otherwise have ridiculous natural advantages, you're not worth the time'.

Ever since the Chuunin exam ended, everything any character's managed to accomplish has been because of some bloodline ability (particularly Sharingan) or because they have a demon inside them or something. Even everything Naruto's done, even the things that the Kyuubi wasn't involved in, were retroactively taken out of the 'working hard' category because as it turns out, he's secretly been the Fourth, the greatest ninja of ever's son. And Rock Lee, the character who is the distillation of that theme? Continually given the shaft.

Kishimoto sucks at remaining thematically consistent.

okay, that i have to agree with you on. Kishimoto is an extremely inconsistent writer, and I think he is so desperate to finish the manga that he has tossed characters aside. But the original intent of characters like Rock Lee and Hinata doesn't remain false just because Kishimoto is kissing major Uchiha ass right now. It doesn't make how hard Naruto worked originally to become strong, or Sakura's medical ninja training, or how Hinata stood up to Neji, obsolete. From interviews with Kishimoto, he does want to fit this all in ( he still says working hard is the theme) but he is kind of failing at doing so. But I'm optimistic >

I'm not. =/

I think it would take Rock Lee and Chouji taking on a pair of fully-powered Uchihas in a two vs two fight and beating their asses soundly to get the theme train back on the track at this point. That's just how soundly it's been derailed. And Kishimoto has clearly revealed himself to not be that awesome of a writer.

I'm gonna have to agree with you, here. I mean, even while he was having characters spout off dialog about hard work being more important than being born with power, Rock Lee was getting his ass kicked by Gaara, and being made totally obsolete after Gaara shows up to his fight against Kimimaro. The only reason Chouji won his fight was because he took pillz to become strong rather than using a technique he had trained with for years or something. No one, and I mean no one compares with Shikamaru, who was born brilliant, and who actually strove to not work ever for it. And Naruto? Son of a hokage, trained by a legendary ninja, given Kyuubi's power when things get hairy. He is the epitome of someone who is strong because strength was thrust upon him. Don't get me wrong though, I'm definitely not saying he doesn't work very hard on his own. But come on.

... It's not just recently that he's failed at his own theme. He's failed all along. :(

I don't mind Lee getting his ass kicked by Gaara, because it did reveal how badass Lee was (even Neji was sort of awed, although he'd never admit it), and Gaara IS sort of absurdly powerful. That, and it led to this scene, which is without a doubt the single best thing Kishimoto has put to paper, and works perfectly with the themes. Now, when Gaara showed up in the Sasuke In A Bucket arc, i was proper pissed for that exact reason.

Shikamaru I don't mind, because although he enjoys a natural genius IQ, and is sorta lazy in the general sense, in combat he does have to work harder for his victories than anyone else, because his combat skills are frankly third-rate. He NEEDS a strategy, and that's harder to work than any amount of direct fighting.

I agree otherwise, though. Kishimoto just...sort of fails in the general sense.

Not to mention the only reason Lee had survived that fight with Kimimaro so long was because he was a "Natural Genius" of the Drunken Fist style.

WAY TO SHIT ON YOUR OWN STORY, KISHIMOTO.

... XD Well maybe I only think that way because I dislike Shikamaru. A lot. *is biased klsfkjl*

:( Yeah it's so sad that he's so epic lame. I mean, it was sorta endearing in the beginning, but seeing as he has done the exact opposite of improving over time (after, you know, gaining some experience), it's just getting pathetic.

OK, but the Drunken Boxing was so awesome that I can forgive any amount of theme-breaking for it. And really, 'hard work >>>> natural talent' as a theme doesn't mean every single victory has to come from hard work. It's more of an overall statement. Plus, all the Drunken Boxing skill in the world wouldn't have helped Lee if it wasn't for his ludicrously strong and well-trained body.

I know, I'm just hatin' for the sake of hatin', now. :P

No but the point was, there's not a single victory that seems to come from hard work rather than natural talent. Okay maybe like... one or two, I just can't think of them off the top of my head.

I know, I really don't have anything against Hinata. All I'm saying is that Hinata is the one that does exactly what anon says s/he hates Sakura for, while Sakura ... doesn't. If that made sense?

♥!!

WORD.

(deleted comment)

So because their useless is offstage, it's negated?

I also think you're underestimating pre-time skip Sakura's emotional impact on Naruto, particularly, both positive an negatively. She's inspired him to do things through encoruagment, she's inspired him to do things through rejections...and yes, those things could be written around another way, with another character, but...I dunno. She also was the convient "brain" character, who has the answers, and balance out the other personalities. Yes, I'm sure, now that we've seen how he did it, we can pick apart his mistakes and make something better, but I don't think he's made a failure of a character.

She's not my favorite, but I can't see the series being the same without her, which defines not useless to me. She fills a role that needed filled. It could be filled differently, which would change the series, and maybe for the better, but I don't think she's a bad character.

WORD.

I call bullshit.

Throwing punches is not the only way to advance the plot. Just because she wasn't the be-all and end-all of their physical battles by powering up at the very last second hardcore cliche style in order to Beat The Bad Guy doesn't mean she didn't have any emotional impact that shaped the whole story. :| Saying the series would be the same without her is just stupid.

And your point about Naruto and Sasuke one-upping each other to climb the trees? :| Their rivalry was based in a large part around Naruto's jealousy over the fact that Sakura liked Sasuke when he wanted her to like him.

So I really don't get where you're coming up with this "Sakura is totally replaceable" thing.

Well, that was fun to read. 8D

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #464 ]

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