fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3580 ]

[ SECRET POST #3580 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3580 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 55 secrets from Secret Submission Post #512.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I read all of them when I was a kid and no, it doesn't bother me. It's not like all southeners were bad guys, just regular soldiers, and considering how old those books are, I'm not holding them up to the modern standards.

Not all southerners were bad, no, but all southern soldiers were. They were literally fighting for the right to enslave PoC's.

Are you an idiot? That isn't how ANY war works. Even fucking Nazis were not all bad. Many were young teens conscripted or pressured into fighting.

"Even fucking Nazis were not all bad"

That's a thing you just typed.

Look at your life.

But it is true. Oskar Schindler was a card carrying Nazi. He also saved thousands of Jews. What about the Nazi Youth? You really going to call a bunch of literally brainwashed children evil? The Nazi propaganda machine not only deceived the outside world about the 'Final Solution', they also tried to keep Germans as ignorant as possible over it.

Like, damn. Read a book or something about how propaganda, war, and mass control works.

What they were doing was working for and fighting for a horrible cause "I never believed in what I was doing" or the age old "I was only following orders" is no fucking excuse.

You have to take responsibility for your actions, and these excuses are fucking sickening.

You can do bad things and not be a bad person. That's like saying someone who's tortured into finally doing something bad is a bad person purely because they did a bad thing that they basically had no control over.

Maybe you can do bad things and not be a bad person. But we're not talking about stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family. We're talking about standing up and fighting for ideals of pure fucking evil.

Because they had NO choice. You could be killed for disobeying or imprisoned.

It's really easy to see "ideals of pure fucking evil" as such decades after the fact.

The scary thing about the Nazis is how gradually they built their ideology into daily life--yes, even including the Holocaust. When they were voted into power most people thought they'd never actually do anything.

But they often had NO choice. And not only did they have no choice, they didn't know truly what was going on. You really think a 17 year old private was privy to the horrible things that were being orchestrated by Hitler and Himmler?

Also, that still doesn't make them evil.

The person you're arguing with is being a bit of a dink but you're kind of an idiot if you want to put kids and teenagers at the same level as an Eichmann.

Again: there is a draft. An actual draft. The thing about drafts is that you can't really resist them without huge, huge ramifications.

There's also the fact that the guys murdering Jews tended to be given the option not to participate (see: Christopher R. Browning (1998). Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland). So if you want to hate someone, hate the people at the camps and on those squads--they say "just following orders" but they usually had the option to back out. Don't hate Random Teenage Militia Draftee, that's stupid.

So someone comes to you and says, "You must fight in this war because we say so. We will do bad things to you and/or your family if you don't."

And you automatically become pure evil once you're coerced. Is that what you're saying?

yes

because morality is absolutely black and white, decisions are black and white, and valuing your life/your family over strangers' lives makes you a huge asshole instead of, you know, a normal human being

also, ignorance is no excuse, how dare you not have a. absolute knowledge and b. the power of hindsight

hth

nayrt, but I feel that you need to read a few more history books.

The fact that the political ends they were fighting for were unequivocally wrong does not mean that they were all bad people. I am as anti-Confederacy as anyone you're going to find, but that's just a ridiculous conclusion. People end up in armies for all kinds of reasons besides political conviction.

Most southerners didn't even own slaves. Most Confederate soldiers were dirt poor themselves.

Yeah, but they liked the idea of slaves. They could say shit like "I might be dirt poor, but at least I ain't no slave". It is what drives all right wing policies, the promise that you might never get rich under them, but at least there will always be someone lower than yourself on the social totem pole. You will always have the ability to punch down when you are angry, the state will guarantee it for you.

Whether or not individual Confederate soldiers, owned slaves personally, it is still broadly accurate to say that the cause for which the Confederacy as a whole was fighting was slavery.

Not everyone in the army was fighting because they believed in that, but that's what the army was basically fighting for.

YOU ARE KIND OF FULL OF SHIT.

I mean I know what you're doing, but feels ain't history. History is fucked up. The people of the past are not like us.

First, there was a draft in the South. On top of that was a lot of social pressure. You can't really get away with not joining up. I mean unless you want total social isolation and possibly getting beaten up. Most human beings aren't that strong.

Second, there's the fact that the North was literally invading the South. For some soldiers it was more about regional loyalty than loyalty to slavery as an ideal.

Third: I hate to say it but most of the North wasn't much better. Abolition only becomes really mainstream in the 1850s. A lot of people didn't think this was really a thing--and abolitionists crazy--until they read Uncle Tom's Cabin and got sad. And believing slavery was wrong did not mean they weren't horrible racists. Hell, there were Northern political movements specifically against ending slavery because freed slaves would take jobs.

If you want to hate someone, hate Confederate leadership causing all this fucked up death. But it makes no sense to hate Random 20 Year Old Who Died 150 Years Ago. Hate someone alive right now.

this. it's really easy for people today to say that they would have stuck by their principals and refused to participate in war while under duress, but the fact is that most people probably would have done it because there would have been severe consequences not just to them, but often to their families as well

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3580 ]

Re: John Carter of Mars

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AGAIN, IT'S ME THE ACTUAL HISTORIAN. HOW ARE YOU

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HELLO. IT IS ME, THE ACTUAL HISTORIAN AGAIN

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nayrt

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HELLO. I AM AN ACTUAL HISTORIAN.

Re: HELLO. I AM AN ACTUAL HISTORIAN.