[ SECRET POST #3614 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3613 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03.
[Project Runway + various reality shows]


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05. http://i.imgur.com/clVGMSG.jpg
[sex scene from The Wolf of Wall Street]


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07.
[Ace Attorney]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #516.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[likeadeuce]

I don't know much about Kipling, what's your source for the idea he was progressive?

[(Anonymous)]

You can just say it about almost anyone and everyone will go like "seems plausible" regardless of the context

People actually don't know much about history

[(Anonymous)]

NA

Because he wrote stories like "Elspeth" where all the sympathy is with the native girl? Or "The Miracle of Purun Bhagat", where a young man of Brahmin caste does a lot of integration with the Brits and rises in government then, at an age when his culture tells him this is appropriate, gives it all up to be a mendicant monk - and goes into that story with so much sympathy and respect for why Purun did that and what the end of his life was like.

Or the Puck books, which are effectively a primer on what colonialism is and how it works?

And just, all the wonderful people in his stories, horse traders and Muslim dowagers seeing the sights, and scholars and soldiers and...

He was a product of the British Empire at its height, and some of his language reflects that, but he was by no means a hidebound conservative, yeah?

[likeadeuce]

That's interesting, thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Welcome.

[(Anonymous)]

Like... none of what you describe here is really incompatible with conservatism. Certainly, none of it is incompatible with liberal unionism, and i'd argue that liberal unionism in Kipling's time is a basically conservative movement

I don't think it's basically the case that being sympathetic with natives is enough to prove that you're not a conservative or in sympathy with imperialism as a system, and i think you're operating on a misunderstanding of the historical context if you think Kipling's peers were incapable of recognizing that Indians could on occasion be intelligent. I think whatever idea of a 'hidebound conservative' you might have is basically a strawman or a red herring

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Well... "conservative" is often used as shorthand for "bigoted arsehole" these days, which I suppose is what I was responding to. (And I do know some very lovely people who consider themselves conservative, so that was wrong of me.)

Can we at least agree that he wasn't "hidebound"?

It sounds like you have a lot of familiarity with the period - how would you personally describe him?

And, "i'd argue that liberal unionism in Kipling's time is a basically conservative movement"

What would you consider "progressive" for the day? Because he was a product of that time, not this one.