[ SECRET POST #3616 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3616 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #517.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[luxshine]

See, up until the last episode I was with you. Angels can wipe out memories and they wanted Sam to be fed demon blood and the brothers to be outcasts from society so making sure Mary died IS a logical strategy.

But for me "left without explanation for at least a week when I have a 2 year old son at home" is abandonment (and it had to be at least a week if she drove all the way to Canada for that hunt), and added to the fact that now they have made that Mary the homemaker is a complete lie? It makes the whole argument in Dean's memory in Dark Side of the Moon take a completely different tint for me (She's complaining about John leaving them alone for long periods of time, after a fight. Given that in that memory Dean is about three? That means that John's absence could be tied to an argument about THAT hunt)

I know I am harsh to Mary. But given that the show has made it perfectly clear that this is yet again a "stupid Dean who needs to learn a lesson about letting go" plot, I am not very willing to give the writers a chance.

(the Lucifer's vessel thing is a very popular theory among some friends. I just called it because that's the easiest way to throw Mary back into the fridge, and the SPN writers are nothing but good at shoving women into refrigerators. Plus it would be an echo to when Eve took Mary's form, and they also plagiarize a lot of the earlier seasons now)

Finally, the fact that I am not liking her now doesn't mean I think no one can enjoy her. Actually, I hope more people like her. Maybe that way they won't kill her. And given SPN's record with female characters, I REALLY want to be wrong about her becoming Lucifer's vessel and dying.

[tabaqui]

I guess we just see things pretty differently. Adults are allowed to have time to themselves, children or not, and I'm sure she told John something, though obviously not about hunting.

I always felt that John and Mary having a rocky relationship was mostly due to the angels/a cupid basically *forcing* them to 'fall in love' - part of the big plan, they had to marry and have offspring! So who knows just *how* in love, or attracted, they actually were?

It...never crossed my mind that the plot was saying Dean was 'stupid' or needed to let go of anything. *shrug* To each their own.

[(Anonymous)]

I've had the same thoughts about John and Mary. Their relationship is actually really fucked up and sad because they were mind raped into falling in love all so they could bring the boys into the world. Plus, John never even knew who Mary was the whole time they were together. So is it any surprise they had a rocky relationship? I've also wondered if John's reaction to Mary's death, never getting over it, unable to be their for the boys, his obsession to find Azazel, all of that was because of the Mark of Union on his heart. If he didn't have that would he have reacted to Mary's death in a more healthy way?

[tabaqui]

Exactly. It was really pretty nasty all the way 'round. I think finding out Mary had this other, darker, more violent and 'unnatural' life before him (in spite of him), also made his reaction that much more obsessive and unhealthy.

Plus, I'll never not be convinced he wasn't suffering from some level of PTSD from being in Vietnam.

(This whole 'get these people together so we can make these vessels' thing is also the reason i get so mad when the boys are blamed for stuff like breaking the seal, etc. They were manipulated *before they were born*, and liked to by demons and angels alike. How the hell were they supposed to make good/right/health decisions?)

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of people don't like John, for totally legit reasons I'll give you, but because of this the fandom doesn't try to empathize with him or understand him. I think he's more interesting and tragic than most people give him credit.

It's a headache to suss out how much of the Winchester's actions is their fault and how much is angels and demons pulling their strings but their are certainly situations where the boys shouldn't have all of the blame.

[tabaqui]

Fandom seems so polarized with John. He's either a sad, determined woobie, grieving and lost, or he's an emotionless abuser. No in between.

But all you have to do is watch the boys around, hear them talk about him, see their actions re: civilians and non-hunters, and you *know* he was a lot more than that.

Yeah, the boys are not spotless, they've made some *bad* decisions. But so much of what was going on was out of their control, and they did the best they could in circumstances most people wouldn't have survived.

All part of our wonderful Show. :)

[(Anonymous)]

My tumblr is amyrat151 if you have a tumblr and want to talk more.

[tabaqui]

I *am* on tumblr, but mine is mostly for reposting pretty things and enjoying all the .gifs (I find actual conversation on Tumblr impossible).

But feel free to follow, if you like. :)
http://cheynelightning.tumblr.com/