fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3659 ]

[ SECRET POST #3659 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3659 ⌋

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Some people say that aborting fetuses with genetic diseases is genocide. If you're going to put it that way, apparently I support genocide. I just don't feel like the Big Scary Word justifies bringing people into this world just to have them suffer.

(I've also heard people say that abortion is genocide against black people, but I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole.)

I agree. I can't understand how in good conscience you could choose to bring someone into the world who is going to have zero quality of life.

I'm not talking Downs, I'm not talking Autism, but actual debilitating conditions where a parent is committing to a lifetime of care and then that 'child' gets shipped off somewhere once the parents are too old to care.

(On that end, I do not have anything but respect for people who choose to abort a fetus who might have something like Downs or Autism. People with special needs require a lot of personalized care and attention a great deal of the time and not everyone is built to be able to give people with those needs that kind of attention and care, and there's nothing shameful about knowing your own limitations.)

I support the right to make your own choice in those situations. I do however have an issue with the assumption that certain conditions = "zero quality of life". Whenever the issue of the right to die comes up, people spin horror stories of the kind of lives that makes it understandable for someone to kill themselves, and often they're describing my life (constant pain being the main thing brought up and a thing I deal with) and it's kind of weird for me since I'm actually pretty happy. I'm not saying "oh everything will be fine, you need to have that baby!" I just don't think it's as simple as assuming that because someone will have a condition they will be utterly miserable.

I do completely agree with you on people knowing their limitations and making choices based on them though.

I guess by zero quality I mean this person will never have any quality of life. They won't ever walk or talk on their own, they won't feed themselves, go to the bathroom themselves, go to school, have a career, have kids/choose not to have kids, marry/not marry, etc.

I don't mean, "Okay there will be an impact on their life, but they can still have a relatively normal life."

I'll agree with that until someone in that situation tells me they're happy, which seems unlikely since being unable to communicate is one of the conditions you laid out.

Some people go way too far deciding that this or that means someone has "no quality of life" though, so I can never be sure what they're thinking of unless they spell it out.

But then isn't the opposite also true? That we shouldn't assume that people will be okay with having to deal with a lifelong medical condition.

Oh definitely. That's one of the many things that makes it so complicated. You never know how the person will feel if you choose to have the baby. It could be that aborting it is the right choice because they really would have been completely miserable and had no quality of life.

Yeah, that's why I would always personally go the abortion option, just because I would feel horrible if I had a child and they turned out to be miserable. You can't regret your lack of existence, but you can definitely regret being born.

I agree with you.

I'm autistic and people like to generalize us as having no ability to do anything and act like the most severe cases make up most of us. Often to a point where it falls into ableism acting like we're not capable of having happy lives or learning anything , thus are just better off dead.

I will admit when people start talking about this viewpoint I can't help but kneejerk get angry a little. I know that's my own problem so I don't judge them until they ACTUALLY say anything close to that.
But I am with you on this because I get so sick of seeing my life and the lives of people like me treated like a fucking tragedy.

I have had people, in the same conversation, go from downplaying my problems to declaring that they would kill themselves if they had to live like me. That's not really the validation I was looking for. I wish people were more comfortable with the nuances of "this causes some problems and sucks sometimes but my life is still worth living to me".

I think it depends on the disease, because where do you draw that line? Autism causes people to suffer. So does diabetes. Should we abort all of those children, then?

Most of the time when I hear people say abortion is genocide against black people they're very often white -- which just makes me not take them seriously at all. The pro-life camp, and the religious right in general, have its roots in people who opposed the civil rights movement. The struggles of Bob Jones University (a private Christian college) with the IRS over the university's segregationist policies (for the record, they had a rule against interracial dating that wasn't rescinded until 2000) was the starting point. The pro-life movement was borne out of racism; it's about upping white births out of concern for losing ethnic majority status. While many in the movement won't admit it, "black genocide" is just fine by them.

2000??? I mean I know it's Bob Jones but YIKES

Ugh, that reminds me of this damn stupid article I had to read for a mandatory literature class - something about "queercripped" reading of fairy tales and they used Snow White as an example. To make a point about ableism/queerphobia, they basically went and wrote "well Snow White's mother wished for a healthy pretty girl, why didn't she wish for a disabled queer kid instead?". Oh I don't know, maybe because what fucking parent in their right mind wants their child to be disabled? It's one thing to not treat disabled people any different than able bodied people, it's a different thing to actively want someone to be disabled altogether.

I guess for me the "to abort kid with probable medical problems or not" question comes down to if it's manageable with medication or surgery or therapy or a combo of those or not, whether I would be in a position to provide access to the care they'd need, and also how much day to day care a kid would need throughout their lifetime. Also, if they would be in pain their whole life, I'd probably abort because otherwise in addition to dealing with chronic pain they'd have to put up with mom being a headcase because watching someone in pain and knowing I can't just make that pain go away makes me crazier than I am already. And, well, I'm the youngest person in my family by 30+ years and I've never had many friends, plus "hey if I die you'll adopt my kid, right?" is not a small favor. If they still needed care by the time I was old and feeble, I think I'd abort.

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[ SECRET POST #3659 ]

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