[ SECRET POST #3667 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3667 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[Killing Stalking]


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03.
[Criminal Minds, JJ/Reid]


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04.
[Sherlock]


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05.
(Swedish artist/photographer Jonna Jinton)


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06.
[Orwell]


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07.
[Sanzoku no Musume Rōnya, Ronia the Robber's Daughter]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 25 secrets from Secret Submission Post #524.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ("Daveed Diggs from Hamilton as Superman") - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i.imgur.com/PXHtOs6.png
[Orwell]

[(Anonymous)]

I don't imagine that these games are remotely well made or anything but stupid and lacking in nuance but I also think if that's turning you into a fascist you can fuck off

[(Anonymous)]

Seconding this. There's a major difference between being annoyed at trite video games that hammer in their message in a sloppy way, and that supporting the actions of real world governments and nationalist movements.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure it was just a rhetorical device in reality but

[(Anonymous)]

Seconded. If fandom gets remotely fashy, I'm out.

They're the fuckin' WORST internet 2Edgy Nu subculture.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure reading history books will set you straight

[(Anonymous)]

"Terrorists are bad and it is bad to help them" is not a fascist position.

[(Anonymous)]

I also don't think that position is correct.

I know that's not going to be a popular take around here, but I wanted to make sure it got said. Obviously there's a wider conversation to have about the legitimate use of force, and it's a difficult and complex question that no one fully agrees on, and it's a nightmare trying to come down to cases. And what OP was describing probably crosses a line for me when it comes to targeting civilians. But I don't agree with the idea that armed resistance to fascism or authoritarianism is necessarily wrong, and it's difficult to see how to do that while avoiding the charge of terrorism. In particular, I think it's difficult to determine what makes the use of violence for political ends more licit or acceptable when it's committed by a state - it's not like it's any less violent - but the Allies in World War 2 certainly did things that they knew would cause civilian casualties, and even targeted civilians at times. And the French Resistance could easily have been described as terrorists; but I would say they were justified. So, you know, it is what it is.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

tl;dr one's freedom fighter is another's terrorist

[thewakokid]

Nope. The line between "Terrorist" and "Freedom" fighter is clearly defined by who you fight. Innocent people who are part of the lowest level of a corrupt system that oppresses you cannot grant you freedom, so targeting them can in no way be considered freedom fighting.

[(Anonymous)]

Remind me not to sit next to you when we're on a hijacked plane or in a Swedish bank.

[ketita]

I don't really understand this secret or what it's about :X

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Orwell, Nothing to Hide, Republique, that black-and-white game that looks like Limbo and has you reporting on your apartment tenants . . . There've been a lot of anti-fascist games lately, and most of them are really obnoxious.

I think Papers Please was the starting point, and it's still the best by far. Orwell is also worth a playthrough, since it manages to bring up some really interesting questions.

Re: OP

[ketita]

Thanks!
So wait a minute, the game in your secret - what is it asking you to do, exactly? Why is telling the cops about a terrorist fascist?

Re: OP

[thewakokid]

Fucking Watchdogs 2. Missed that shitshow out.

[thewakokid]

I'd give that game a whirl, but, no I don't think it would change my views

[(Anonymous)]

Ooh, I started playing this a while ago!

I think it's meant to show us that it's actually kind of creepy to be able to snoop on people so much, and that as much as said snoopiness can be used to stop crimes, those who don't want the snoopiness have a very valid point and can be provoked to extremes to make it if they can't be heard any other way.

[ibbity]

You can think that an ideology is presented in a way severely lacking nuance without automatically falling in with its opposite, you know. Also all of my wtf to the last sentence, I don't care what ideology you follow, murderers who just target random people are bad and no one should feel bad about turning them in.

[raspberryrain]

How is that anti-fascist? Surely being pro-terror and pro-crime is closer to being fascist?

[(Anonymous)]

Fascism is a political movement supporting a powerful state defined by authoritarian nationalism. They often tend to be highly reactionary towards perceived threats against the state.

Certainly not pro-crime or pro-terror. Of course, Fascism embodies the idea that "it's not a crime if the state does it", so there's some definitional trickery involved there.

NB: I'm not a Fascist. But words have meanings.

[(Anonymous)]

I am surprised you thought this about Orwell as got a different message from it. It was about a digital interrogation system that hired investigators from outside the country as supposed 'impartial observers' to extract relevant data. It is not any technology that was far fetched as it just made it into one piece of software. People protesting against government interference were recruited by their uni professor who actually was an immigrant to a nation that liked invading others and calling it 'peace missions'. Plus it was more of how we rely on corporations as everyone was connected to them - even the protesters. The bomber was not framed as good by any margin (at least to me as she tried to prove how easy it is to pin crime on someone else) and probably the girl in picture and the one initially blamed for bombings were the most sympathetic characters. Took that the point was how opinions can be easily doctored as no one is unbiased nor invisible to the system.

[arcadiaego]

That's a pretty extreme reaction to not liking a game, tbh. You sure you weren't actually just a fascist to start with?

[soldatsasha]

I liked Papers Please, but I've seen a lot of criticisms of this Orwell game that have put me off buying it, similar to your problem with the terrorist.

Papers Please did a good job of showing how the problem of dystopian states (fascist, communist, whatever) is beyond the control of any one person. The enforcers of that state are often also victims of it, like the player. Or beyond being victims, are totally desensitized to the horrors of the situation, like Calensk who gives you a portion of the bonus for detaining people, who can't afford to pay you when his wife gets sick, who blandly guides you through disarming a bomb.

And the 'good guys' aren't necessarily good, either. The confirmed criminal Jorji Costava is always trying to smuggle drugs across the border, admits to bribing guards, and is friendly and ultimately can save the lives of your family if you get into trouble. EZIC kills a lot of people and it's unclear whether or not they're really trying to help Arstotzkans or if they're just an extremist group trying to seize control for their own ends. And, many of the seemingly innocent people who come through the checkpoint are smuggling, or cross with the intention of immediately murdering the checkpoint guards.

But beyond showing that the people aren't necessarily what you'd think of them and the "sides" of the conflict are blurry, it also didn't paint the state of Arstotzka as some kind of senseless evil. Every change in the rules comes as a result of something else. Kolechian terrorist attacks lead to searces on Kolechians, which leads to greater diplomatic tension and relaxed searches, which leads back to more terrorist attacks. And so on.

Many pieces of media fail at showing this well.

Is that supposed to be Kelly Osbourne?

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, I can't say much about the secret itself, except that sometimes people who can't see shades of gray drive me up the wall. But perhaps you should try other types of games.

[(Anonymous)]

I too am sick of non-nuanced,polarized views of fascism and anti-fascism. However if I were to decide to react by becoming a fascist I would be guilty of the same "all or nothing" mindeset that I complain about.