fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #488 ]

[ SECRET POST #488 ]

⌈ Secret Post #488 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #070.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

7- She didn't do anything to Kitty pride that rainbow socks and roller skates hadn't already done.

12- Ok, think of it this way (And I know there's OOC, but think of it this way and maybe you'll understand) 3-10% of all people are gay (And those are generally considered low estimates). I don't know the exact percentage of fictional gay character in Medium with a supposedly realistic setting (i.e. a world with no woman wouldn't be "normal", but it's significantly lower. Say it's 1% there's still 2-9% of character that should be gay. Slash fans are just exploring it.

13- I enjoy it, but not the anime. And it wouldn't be the clamp series I'd recommend first by far.

15- Because 90% of real BL stuff is cliched crap with the same two character and same plot lines? They're just the gay manga equivalents of Harlequin romances.

45- A little bit of both maybe?

60- *Snort* I am amused. (The first always felt like incest to me.)

64- Wait he's not? Not in the fandom but...wow.

I get that it's just a thing people do for fun, and I'm cool with that, really. I sure have my own little "what if...?" fantasy scenarios I come up with. But my issues with so much of the yaoi I see is that it seems like a lot of people take characters that are written as straight by the author and put them in these homoerotic scenarios, and in the process of doing that, have to change the character/s.

Now het authors can be just as guilty of this, too, don't get me wrong, and it bugs me just as much when they do it. But because yaoi and slash are everywhere, in every fandom, and seem to constitute a very large portion of most of the fanworks produced, and with people liking different pairings, that turns into a LOT of OOC for a LOT of characters. And when OOC bothers you, but you still want to take part in fandom, it can get really old, really fast. Just my pet peeve, but I know I sound bad ragging on the yaoi fans about it.

I do understand what you mean(And I rarely look at it as cumulative, because if you cut of the bottom 80% of whatever of crap, you have a lot more faith in humanity)

I think it's more that 80-90% of EVERYTHING is crap, but since yaoi is more prevelant now a days, it's what you see more of it. But if we had a good way to measure quality, I bet the percentages would break down the same.

As for the character being straight, I dunno...in my fandoms there aren't a shit load of character who are 100% either way. So I have my opinion both ways on a lot, but as there's not "canon" facts, I tend to operate on "If it's done well, more power to em."

I totally agree with that: there's horrible characterization in het/gen/yaoi/what have you and it's probably about the same percentage across the board. I guess my main frustration with the yaoi is that I'm not into most of it, but it's so prevailent in my fandoms that I feel like I have no place in them. I don't care if people like yaoi, I just would like something aside from yaoi to read/look at, too.

And I do agree with your last point, too-- a lot of the time, a character's sexuality isn't an issue one way or the other, so I don't really tend to worry about it. And I really don't care if people are into X-pairing or Y-sexuality, regardless of my level of interest. I just get frustrated with a lack of any fanworks I'm interested in and needed to kvetch for a second.

That I ttly understand. And is actually a lot of the reason I stopped reading fan fics. I wish I could help you there, but...IDK. The "Make your own!" advice is such bull. (Not that making your own is bad, just the assumption you'll enjoy what you make the same way)

Yeah, and not everyone's a good writer/artist, or whatever, either. It's frustrating, but ah well, what are you going to do ultimately? Occasionally venting helps, but I really can't begrudge people for liking what they like.

Have you tried asking for recs in a bigger place? Or does you tste run towards things you might be knawed out for?

My thoughts exactly.

I use to work at Walden's books. It took one slow weekend of me having free reign of the manga section to totally lose interest in most BL manga. (Ironically, my favorite's are Lily Hoshino's, which are the epitome of "Only yaoi because her girls have penis" but the stories and art are very cute. Even if occasionally badly written)

12. Can't they do that with original characters, though?

Technically anyone can do whatever the fuck they want with OC's. Which is why there's no fun at all for me.

If I only wanted to play in my world, I'd never read/watch anything someone else wrote/read.

And really...99.9% of character aren't 100% straight. Even if canon doesn't mention it (Case in point, CANON never mentions Dumbledore being gay, and if someone hadn't asked no one would know)

If a character is CANONLY straight, I see your point, but most character are canonly nada. And although you should be assuming 90% are straight, my 90% I see as straight, might be different from the person next to me's 90%. (IDK your fandoms anon, so can't give any real fandom specific example, but everyone "gaydar" if you will is tuned differently. Who I see as a flaming poof, someone else might just see as a flaboyant but extremely heterosexual man)

((And I'm really tl;dr right now. Sorry.)

15. Well, so it's shonen! XDDDDDD
But with those three examples, those are special. They do have a plot. FAKE:Second Season, for example, has been lacking in yaoi content.

So is most thing, really, but her three "Shonen" example sure have a lot more interesting characters and plots, etc then most BL manga (I don't know the three she had specific, because like, I think Fake is ugly as shit so don't read it. So have no opinon on it's plot)

I think the thing is there's SO much shonen we only get the cream of the crop, but because of the BL explosion, we get any crappy manga June could get thier license on (not that I'm not pleased they opened up that field, but really, try reading 3 or 4 in a row someday. They're start to blend real quick. Even if a Shonen is BAD you can usually tell it apart from the others in it's field)

And the three BL mangas that she picked sure have a lot more interesting characters and plots than most shonen manga.
She picked three BL series that not only have plots but have Awesome plots at that. It's the cream of the crop against the cream of the crop.
FAKE is a very good comedy and it has good character development (arguably above most shonen) but yeah, the art doesn't appeal to many people.
Ai no Kusabi is interesting but I haven't read the novels so I can't really talk.
Let Dai is... genius. The characters are so well done. It's pretty disturbing and the romance is not exactly the focus.

But I, hm, don't like long shonen series. Because they're long. I'd rather read bad shoujo or bad yaoi or bad josei. It's a matter of taste: I like series more focused on romance/relationships than on 'plot'.
And yeah, for me, it's easier to tell yaoi apart than to tell shonen apart. It's never struck my interest. They all seem the same to me. So as I said, taste.

Er, not all shonen series are long, unless you count 37 episodes/12 mangas as "long" (in the case of Death Note.) Shoujo can be long as hell too--case in point: Sailor Moon. So, would you rather read a shorter decent shonen, or a super-long OMG REALLY BAD shoujo? (I'm NOT saying Sailor Moon is bad, mind you, it was my first love, but damn that anime was long.)
Also, I'm glad you mentioned that it's a matter of taste for you, because otherwise I'd have to mention that. I personally start to confuse different yaoi series after a while, but can still tell the differences between various shonen series even without reading them or liking them. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Same Cell Organism and Yellow, but a lot of yaoi feels pretty generic nowadays. But yeah, that's just a difference in points of view, not necessarily the series in question. So thanks for saying that.

Regarding josei, have you read Tramps Like Us/Kimi wa Pet? It's a fabulous example of amazing josei, imho. ♥ And do you know of any other published josei series? I like josei much better than shoujo, but it doesn't get published half as often :C

On one hand, yeah, I do count that as 'long', 'short' being less than five volumes. On the other one, I was referring mostly to the Bleach/Naruto kind of shonen. Shonen Jump type series? I've seen all of Saint Seiya and own most Slam Dunk. Enough shonen for me! XP
I admit I don't know much about the other kinds of shonen which I'm sure exist.
Regarding your question, these days, series longer than 20 volumes or 60 episodes put me off. They have to be really really really good to make me watch them. So short > long almost always. I'm lazy!

Of course I have. It's awesome awesome awesome!
I'm not American but I believe Nodame Cantabile is being published by Del Rey. It's a rather sweet series about classical music and weird musicians that deserves more love.
But yeah, sadly josei is not nearly as popular as shojo. :/

Ah, I see. I don't much like that brand of shonen, either, lol. I just like anything with a unique, decent plot regardless of the genre, and lately for some reason shonen has been more appealing, whereas it used to be shojo. It's probably just what's being published/scanlated/where I'm looking. I've never looked into Slam Dunk because I sort of hate sports, is it good anyway?
Yeah, Death Note isn't really THAT brand, but it is extremely plot-driven, and the characters are sort of...shoved to the side a lot in favor of said plot, so you might not like it. There are a few other unpublished series I've become obsessed with, like Deadman Wonderland and Mirai Nikki, that you can't really put into a single genre, but the characters are pretty awesome and the stories are sorta creepy. Maybe look into those? And for good shojo, the last series I finished was Guru-Guru Pon-chan, which I adored.
Pfft, oh yes, all my friends are obsessed with One Piece recently, but the fact that the anime is over 300 episodes AND STILL GOING is really keeping me from watching it. Dx

Squee! Not many people seem to know it, so yay, another fan! :D
Ohh, I'll have to look into that. I've seen it sitting around at book stores, but never looked at it. Thanks! ♥
It's really a shame. All the things people bash shojo for--immaturity, shameless stereotypes, etc.--is sorta fixed in josei, but no one ever acknowledges that. Saaaddd.

Well, I do admit I've been out of the loop regarding shoujo and shonen. XP I only hear of the most popular series that many times are not to my taste.
Slam Dunk has some strong points (for example, many of the sports manga cliches don't apply to it) but it's still an sports series. It does have an awful lot of fights too. I love it but...
Oh, I tried Death Note. Didn't like it probably because of what you said (I like 'character drives the plot', not the opposite). The same goes to Bleach and Naruto.
Thanks, I'll look into them. :D

Josei is so overlooked. ;; Well, OK, if you mostly like shonen you'll probably hate it but shojo fans don't look at it either. Maybe with doramas growing more popular that'll change.

The only reason I know anything obscure is because my friend prowls scanlation sites and links me to things he thinks I'd like XD; Most of the popular stuff isn't what I like either. Death Note is an exception, not a rule. The other series I've been reading are Absolute Boyfriend and Demon Flowers--I still like my shojo sometimes, lol.
Hrm, doesn't sound like something for me ^^; I sort of started to like Crimson Hero, but the fact that I'm entirely nonathletic and not interested in sports kept me from reading more.

Maybe it's because a lot of publishers don't think there's a market for it anywhere but Japan? A sad mistake--! I like anything decent, shonen, shojo or otherwise, so I'll give it a try! ♥ Yes, let's hope for that change, we need it u_u

But she wasn't JUST saying those three, she was saying "Stuff like this". And generally "Stuff like this" sucks ball (Figuratively and literally), where as her "Crap" generally doesn't. Example aside, she's comparing a weaker, specialized genre to a stronger, broader one. I can find "Good" romance novels, it doesn't change the fact that the genre as a whole is pretty much a load of BS. (A load I occasionally enjoy, but one none the less)

(And like I said I haven't read Fake, but most people I know who have say it's pretty much the next step up from Gravitation, so uhm? Every bit of it I've seen, which isn't much, but never gave me the desire to over com the fug of the art)

And as her secret was not "Because I like them better" it was "because they're better" even if to YOUR it's taste, the OP is making blanket statements. (Of course it's just HER taste to, so really doesn't matter in the long run, but we're already here, so we've past the "Whatever floats your boat/cry moar" stage)

Also, 13 volumes=/=long (I'll give you Bleach and Naruto, but Deathnote? Long? Only if you have the attention span of a 4 year old.) In fact I actually forgot DN was in that because I don't even think I'd count that as Shonen (though it is a "Shonen jump" title it doesn't seem to fit into what Shonen is). So it didn't even really a shonen vs BL thing it's a...good series with large appeals across the board vs. small genre aimed ONLY at BL fans (And there's her answer right there. People don't get into those series just for the yaoi. They get into them, and it's there. You pretty much HAVE to like yaoi to read the others)

And I also like things more focused on relationships and romance. I just also don't like reading too much crap. (Or at least recognize, if I'm reading some crappy fluffy romance novel it's not exactly leaking quality all over the place)

Oh, you're saying that most shonen is better than most BL? Why?

FAKE is a lot less on crack than Gravitation. And it doesn't follow the seme/uke stereotype. It's... different.

First: I have the attention span of a 3 and a half year old. Don't offend me.
Second: Well, I think you can get into FAKE or Let Dai without being a yaoi fan. Both FAKE and Let Dai lack porn and have plots, so it wouldn't be that hard. You'd just have to be able to tolerate romance.

I don't read that much yaoi anymore because I don't like crap. It's the same reason I don' read much shonen. Or shoujo. Or josei. Or seinen. Or watch that much TV.

In Japan I doubt this is true, because you have a shit load more shonen to chose from, but HERE...since we were talking about cream of the crop, say 10% of BL is cream of the crop in America. 80% of Shonen is. Just because there's more crop to cream. Also, shonen appeals to a broader audience which isn't necessarily a mark of quality, but it will be a mark of popularity (the two aren't entirely disconnected, but they aren't the same either)

As for why I generally enjoy it more? I don't. Like you I don't read a lot of anything. But most BL's streotypes and recycled plots are SO set and SO narror that it became joyless to read them. Although shonen has those things as well, there's a lot MORE to pull from (Hence more interesting combination of the streotypes and plot devices. if you have a 100 to pull on and need 3 for a story it is better then having 10 to pull on), and a lot higher incidents of doing something fairly original or interesting. And even though I'm not huge of all three of those series she has listed as the crap (I do adore Naruto, but DN I'm luke warm on, and Bleach is not my cuppa tea) I do think all three bring something worth while to the board.

And although I do believe it with everything I've heard of from Let Dai, I know people who were not into yaoi who've tried Fake, and can't get around the yaoi-ness of it. And even some who were.

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[ SECRET POST #488 ]

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