fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3607 ]

[ SECRET POST #3607 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3707 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

[Pokemon]

__________________________________________________

03.

[Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter]

__________________________________________________

04.

[Sherlock]

__________________________________________________

05.

[Titanic]

__________________________________________________

06.

[Underworld: Blood Wars]

__________________________________________________

07.

(Claymore)

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #530.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think this was a great book choice given the current climate. I think another thing to put in to perspective was when it was written. I'm not sure on the timeline of German concentration camps, but I know persecution rhetoric had already begun by this point.

I read the book while on the subway in NYC and I just couldn't believe what I was reading and I'm curious why this book wasn't more widely talked about when I was in high school/college, even as a commentary to WWII and looking at power trends and changes in political climate.

I agree with your comments about Trump and the press, but I don't think we'll get to concentration camps. I don't think they'd be able to hide them, but I am worried what the private prison industry and how the current regulations will change. We've already seen an increase in deportation, or at least it's been publicized more.

In good news in our political climate is just how much money the ACLU has raised recently and how much they are fighting to keep the Constitution and all of our rights.

We've already got concentration camps, we just have not yet got extermination camps yet. The Nazi extermination camps started as traditional concentration camps, but then they changed into extermination camps. It is important not to conflate the two though, they are different things. Prison camps and concentration camps can be the same thing though.

True, and then of course some of the Nazi camps were a combination of labor camps and death camps.

I think it's an interesting parallel between who were seen as the enemy in 1935 (Jews and Communists) and now (Muslims/terrorists).

I think it's interesting that the whole "Muslims are bad because terrorism!" thing is sort of similar to the whole "Jews are bad because greedy bankers!" thing though I suppose there might have been a lot less of the latter actually happening? Not sure. There are also definitely white, non-Jewish, non-Muslim American/European people in both categories though (greedy bankers and terrorists) who are glossed over when that kind of rhetoric is brought into play!

And if you look at the history of why Jews are bankers, (as I was taught in high school) it was because medieval Christian Europeans weren't supposed to handle money due to religious beliefs so it became a Jewish profession. Now, how true that is, I don't know.

It was more that after the First Crusade that Jews were forbidden to own land or take up the medieval big paying trades of carpentry and stone masonry. If they wanted to do anything other than shovel pigshit for a living then it was banking or nothing.

Thanks for the clarification!

And then of course they got blamed for it! Eesh.

Well the Jews had only themselves to blame by calling in debts when overdrafts got too large instead of lending more and more and more. /sarcasm

I guess we use the term "concentration camps" because technically the Nazi camps were both. I never really heard "extermination camps" used in history class, though maybe it should have been. We look to the Holocaust as the most disgustingly outstanding example of any such thing, and a lot of people don't even realize those places exist(ed) outside of Nazi Germany without a more thorough and specific education. And upon reflection, I think that's an issue.

We definitely have a major issue with incarceration in the US, especially private prisons, though the latter is I believe (and hope!) on the decline.

I wonder where you'd draw the line to call them concentration camps. I suppose in some ways they are, but not every way. They are definitely proportionately over-populated by minorities though. :(

We really do need to start teaching people more about the Nazis than just the final five or six years.

There was a good BBC series, available to stream in the usual places called "The Nazis: A Warning From History", which should have been screened a lot more widely. We could have done with heeding that warning more clearly.

I should check that out.

Yeah I did a little super-quick research, there was absolutely persecution rhetoric and Kristallnacht might also have already happened but the camps themselves I think didn't start until WWII.

It's a very good book that would have made a really good read in college. It's a bit heavy (partly because of older prose) so it would have been a slog in high school I think.

You make a good point about the prison industry. That's absolutely something worth worrying about.

Did anything in particular - any characters, any part of the prose - stand out to you?

On reflection, I really enjoyed reading the NYC rally scene - love how descriptive it was. Heart-wrenching, too.

I agree that it's a bit heavy in the beginning and it took me a while to get through, but I had two- 1 hour subway rides so I was determined to get through as much of it as possible then. But I think because of the subject a lot of people wouldn't have read it in college. I only had two English classes in college because of my major, but I feel like this book should have made more of an impact the way everyone talks about 1984.

I think a few things stood out about how the characters felt they were safe where they were and oh, the laborer, I forget his name, but how he was just in the background but was then given power and tried to lord it over everyone, which is what you see from some Trump supporters.

The prose is a bit dated, but the plot stood out simply because of everyone's attitude of It Can't Happen here, but look at Brexit and Trump. I think what kept me going was when it was written. 1935. Before Hitler and the Japanese concentration camps.

It was a good read, but I was annoyed at the main character over him cheating on his wife and his flippant attitude towards it. I did think it was interesting that the new president in the book is very much about supporting the men, women should go back to the kitchen and that blacks have no upward movement whatsoever, which is again interesting because of the time period, prior to the Civil Rights movement as we know it.

Subway time is excellent time for reading! I have a tiny bit of train time each week but it's only like 10 min and I usually use it playing Pokeémon Go lol

Yeah you're talking about Shad Ledue. He was Doremus' "hired man" (I guess just kind of a groundskeeper-type thing). He's very much like a Trump supporter, fits all the stereotypes. I kinda feel bad saying that lol. But he's an ass and likes lording it over everyone, has no idea how infeasible Windrip's plans are, probably less educated, etc.

Yeah the thing about people looking at Brexit and then saying "well I'll vote third party because Hillary will win anyway" FASLDKJF;LJKL;LSKJDF;LKJA. it's like come ON. It's one of the things that really depresses and worries me - how are people supposed to learn from the history of the 1930s and 1940s if they can't learn from the history of the past few months??

Yeah the cheating bit sucked, even though I liked Lorinda a lot. It kinda sucks because I think Doremus really loved both of them and would have been happy to be with both of them but the idea of polyamory was like...not even a thing back then. And it doesn't excuse actual cheating, which I abhor. Sissy's suggesting of it was pretty funny in context but like, come on girl, do you want to wreck your parents' marriage??

Yeah so the time period was only about 15 years post-women's suffrage so I'm sure there was a lot of contention and still a lot of dissenters. And I think there was a little upward mobility probably for black people at the time but Windrip wanted to get rid of what little there was. The black man had had the vote for much longer than any women, and Windrip wanted to take that away too. His whole segment of his platform on "the Negro" was so revolting :| and it's interesting to me that even for the time that was controversial. There were undoubtedly a lot of white people who would have agreed and supported it but also a lot of people both black and white who would have vehemently opposed it even then, I think.

Yes, Shad. He reminds me of a lot of Trump supporters I know who are just spouting off nonsense. Granted, look at Trump himself spouting off that "last night in Sweden" which was just something he watched on Fox News that was not representative of Sweden in the first place.

I also know a lot of Trump supporters who honestly don't care about the rest of the world and either thought Brexit was a good thing or didn't pay attention to it or why they should care.

I liked Lorinda too but his nonchalance towards cheating on his wife bothered me.

And yes I agree with your assessment of Windrip's platform on "the Negro," but I also know a lot of racist people who only know of Muslims as something other people see and instead deal with blacks in their daily lives (I know a lot of rural Southerners who feel this way).

Interestingly, I read an article on cracked about why more liberals live in cities and why, which also sort of sticks out here, where Doremus ignored the issue until it actually started hurting his paper.

At least this book has given us a lot of things to talk about.

Do you happen to have a link to the Cracked article? It's an interesting topic for me to be sure!

And yeah a lot of Trump supporters don't give a shit about the rest of the world. It's all about 'murica! And nothing else matters. Which is not only morally wrong but also going to bite them in the butt if they get their way.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-ways-big-cities-turn-you-liberal-converts-perspective/

And I don't think people realize what a global economy we are now. Already tourism is down and that's going to hurt us long term.

The good news is the UK and US tanking their economies out of stupid pride has meant the Japanese economy is starting to perk back up. Lot of yen that went to America and London is coming back home instead.

Thanks - that was interesting!

I wish some level of global studies was required. Social studies in high school is pretty much exclusively history which is important but we need a lot more focus on current events, happenings both local and global, and politics.

I think the US curriculum fails at all levels. They push for math/science, but not really because I know so many who don't have a basic understanding of sciences and give up on basic math. Just testing to standardized tests isn't a good thing.

A friend and I have been talking about how we see how Hitler came to power and Stalin too. I have a friend who is from Russia and her relatives lived decently during Stalin and remember the good, not the bad.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3607 ]

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion

Re: Book club - February discussion