[ SECRET POST #3778 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3778 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 36 secrets from Secret Submission Post #541.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Her own illustrations show Hermione as white. She clearly had a white Hermione in mind.

[(Anonymous)]

JK probably had a lot more say (eventually) than most authors, but cover illustrations =/= text canon, they're almost always purely a creation of marketing departments, and different editions of the same book can even feature quite different appearances.

I mean, I agree that JK probably imagined Hermione as white originally and didn't even consider otherwise until the possibility was pointed out to her, but illustrations aren't irrefutable canon evidence. They're deuterocanon at best.

[(Anonymous)]

No I mean HER personal illustrations.

https://www.therowlinglibrary.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/jkr_gary.jpg

[greghousesgf]

those noses that are just nostrils. ick.

[(Anonymous)]

hilarious story

the MLK Jr monument in Washington, DC? some genius decided to carve it out of white stone

it looks SO WEIRD

but anyway, my point is, black&white media make indicating skin tone a really dicey and unreliable barometer of ethnicity

this is 1) obviously not by a great artist 2) explicitly features weird lighting - I have 0 idea if the person next to Hermione is supposed to be Black Dean Thomas or just somebody in more shadow, and 3) again, not the text of the books

I already said I agree that JK probably did consider Hermione default-white, but that doesn't make it """canon""" in a way that invalidates her announcement, which to me sounds less like "aha I'm so clever for not mentioning race" and more like "hey, it turns out I didn't actually mention race and I sure did mention Hermione's bushy voluminous hair a lot, I would like assholes to stop shutting people down for racist reasons in my name." I've no doubt she's smug elsewhere, but I don't feel like this (very bad, literal napkin?) art by a non-artist is 'proof' of anything.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, some people are never happy.

What black, carveable stone should they have used then? The statue is massive, you have to factor cost and durability too.

[(Anonymous)]

lmao I don't like, hate the monument, but it was a dumb choice, and it looks weird, and if they aren't willing to shell out for expensive stone for the only MLK jr monument in the city when everything else is marble-plated and marble certainly aint cheap (and black marble exists), like....that doesn't say great things tbh

but it didn't have to be skin-color-ish brown or black, it could have just been like, dark grey granite? granite's super common and durable. Or they could have made the statue out of non-stone and enameled it or something, anything but pasty white soapstone-looking thing they did use

[(Anonymous)]

That artist is JK ROWLING.

how much clearer do I have to make this?

[(Anonymous)]

JK ROWLING is NOT A TRAINED ARTIST she is a WRITER and she DIDN'T PUT THOSE DRAWINGS INTO THE BOOKS

I fucking understand what you're saying, I just don't think it's a relevant point. I don't think whatever JKR says in interviews is canon gospel either.

[(Anonymous)]

The author generally provides key information to cover artists and THE CHARACTER'S RACE is one of those pieces of information. Even the Anne of Green Gables cover that depicts Anne as a brunette managed to get her race right.

Hermione was written as a white girl. End of story. If people want to race-bend her, that's cool, but it's not canon.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Authors frequently have little say in cover art, and whitewashing of characters in cover art is frequent. I think Gaiman can get what he wants. Ursula K. Le Guin has had to fight it through multiple editions of Earthsea books.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but Rowling never said anything about Hermione's race in the time from when the books were done until the Harry Potter play. Even if you think Rowling wanted to wait until the movies were done for Emma Waston's benefit so that people won't be mad at Emma for playing a black character, I get that but again JK Rowling was completely silent on the issue for years. Rowling also gave the okay for Emma to play Hermione in the first place.

You're telling me that with all of Rowling's money and influence that she was scared to tell the world from 2012 to 2016, like she did with outing Dumbledore, that she always meant for Hermione to be black or biracial all this time but she was pressured into white washing her by Bloomsbury, Scholastic, and/or Warner Brother's? No. She wrote a white girl but it's cool now in liberal circles to race and genderbend established characters and Rowling is a liberal. She saw people like to racebend Hermione and decided to pretend Hermione's race has totally been ambiguous all this time, guys. Bullshit.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

You're telling me that with all of Rowling's money and influence that she was scared to tell the world from 2012 to 2016, like she did with outing Dumbledore, that she always meant for Hermione to be black or biracial all this time but she was pressured into white washing her by Bloomsbury, Scholastic, and/or Warner Brother's?

I'm telling you that big-name, award-winning, best-selling authors have routinely dealt with whitewashing on book covers, up to a few years ago when a couple of egregiously bad examples hit the news.

I'm not saying anything about Rowling's personal motivations, interpretation, or emotional states. First, because I honestly don't give a shit about that part of the debate. Second, because I'm not a telepath to know those things and neither are you.

EDIT: Also, in-development ideas about a character don't mean squat when we're looking at the final production of novels, films, and stage plays.

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't really talking to you when I said "you're telling me." That was a general "you're telling me." I just find it unbelievable that someone at JK Rowling's level of power and money doesn't have the social clout or the balls to have said something in all that time before Cursed Child that she meant Hermione to be black or biracial. Who was there to bully or guilt her into silence that she couldn't wave aside after the Harry Potter movies were all made and released? Pottermore would have been a great opportunity to have a darker skinned Hermione in the art work, but Hermione was just as white as ever there.

Those other "big-name, award-winning, best-selling authors" who might not have as much money as Rowling and power as Rowling have all talked about their whitewashing experiences. What has kept her from saying the same happened to her?

Like a lot of people who call Rowling's bullshit what it is, it's not the Hermione being thought of as black by some fans that bothers me. In fact, if Rowling said that she always wanted Hermione to be black or mixed but was bullied into making her white, I would feel sorry for Rowling and accept that Hermione was in fact black all this time. But that's not what happened. For Americans ethnic tensions are very much on racial lines so they thought it was only "logical" for Hermione to be black. Then this headcanon caught on with people all over the world and it took on a life of its own. It was entirely a fandom creation, Rowling had very little to do with it for good or ill. What really bothers me is that Rowling pretending Hermione's race was ambiguous when it obviously wasn't. There's even an early sketch where she had Dean Thomas drawn and he was drawn as black because he is and Hermione wasn't darkened at all.

No, I'm not a mind reader but I think I can make a guess about people's motivations and thoughts based on their actions. And Rowling's actions to me screamed liberal virtue signaling. If I'm being kind, I can say fan support of people seeing her work however they want was mixed up in there but it was mostly virtue signaling.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I'm sure if you want to rant at someone who actually gives a fuck about what Rowling's original intent was, other people will be happy to oblige.

[(Anonymous)]

THAT IS LITERALLY NOT WHAT SHE WAS DOING THOUGH YOU WANKER.

Maybe the caps will help it get through your thick, racist skull.

All she said was that she never FUCKING EXPLICITLY WROTE DOWN IN THE TEXT OF THE BOOKS AS PUBLISHED HERMOINE'S FUCKING RACE and as such, that non-white castings and interpretations of Hermoine are perfectly valid.

That is not the same thing as claiming she super totally always intended Hermoine to be non-white.