[ SECRET POST #3795 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3795 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #543.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Bit hypocritical there to dismiss those as a "basic empathy disconnect." One could say you have a "basic empathy disconnect" for not understanding how those people have been overloaded with messages of devastation and sorrow all over media about something they don't feel, and are understandably wanting to give their opinion too. Do I agree with what they're doing? Not really, but I can empathize with why they do it.

Insinuating anyone who doesn't agree with or understand you is basically disconnected from any empathy is very black and white, with no attempt at empathizing with where they may be coming from on your part.

[(Anonymous)]

While I appreciate the school yard knee jerk response of 'No, you're the one with the basic empathy disconnect, stoopie head!', this is not a case where it applies.

I can describe the actions of someone as a 'basic empathy disconnect' while at the same time being able to empathise with them - in this case understanding that these people are seeing the outpouring of grief you describe, being confused by it as it doesn't align with their feelings, and then feeling uncomfortable because they seem out of step with what 'everyone else' seems to be feeling (which is not a laughing matter; social rejection is hardwired to be super distressing for humans). these feelings influence them to make a secret post about how they 'don't get it', both expressing their frustration and also looking for social validation in the form of people saying they feel the same way.

Whereas, if some of these posters had taken a second to reflect, they might have realised that the people expressing sorrow so visibly just had a particular emotional connection with the celebrity or their artwork that the secret posters might not share, but might be analogous to some other emotional connection the secret poster has to something different. So, you know, a basic empathy disconnect.

('Basic empathy disconnect' i.e. an instance of not being empathetic =/= 'incapable of empathy', fyi)

[(Anonymous)]

That's not what I said, if you read my comment. Not so polite to reduce the discussion to five year old kindergarten terms on your part.

I believe the exact words I used were "bit hypocritical."

"in this case understanding that these people are seeing the outpouring of grief you describe, being confused by it as it doesn't align with their feelings, and then feeling uncomfortable because they seem out of step with what 'everyone else' seems to be feeling (which is not a laughing matter; social rejection is hardwired to be super distressing for humans). these feelings influence them to make a secret post about how they 'don't get it', both expressing their frustration and also looking for social validation in the form of people saying they feel the same way."

That's the thing. Reflection and empathy doesn't mean people will suddenly be sensitive and good. You aren't bound to be affirmative or nice to these people because you can see where they're coming from, and neither are they bound to be nice to others. It'd be nice if they were, but I don't think it's an empathy thing.

Plus, if you suggested that the death of a musician is similar to the death of someone's dog for example, they'd simply deny that it's the same, because to them it's not. It's not a matter of them not being able to understand things are the same, it's a matter of things not being the same to them. To say everybody who is doing that is simply lacking empathy in the instance is reducing a complicated thing to very broad terms, since you could easily say it's the other side lacking empathy for the other--after all why can't they understand and agree that musicians and dogs aren't the same, if empathy is agreement?

If you'd prefer 'stoopie-head' I can do that though.

[(Anonymous)]

For reference, you imply that I am the party struggling with empathy twice in your original comment, in lines 2 & 3 of the first paragraph, and as the entire point of the second paragraph. But no matter.

"That's the thing. Reflection and empathy doesn't mean people will suddenly be sensitive and good."

I'm not sure at what point I said anyone should be sensitive or good. I certainly am not being sensitive or good by starting or continuing this argument. I don't think that has anything to do with the matter at hand, which is that I think that it's being able to understand why someone is sad over a celebrity death is a matter of basic empathy, and making a secret about not getting that (with no other content) just makes you seem lacking in that skill.

"It's not a matter of them not being able to understand things are the same, it's a matter of things not being the same to them."

If someone suggested to me that a celebrity dying was the se as a pet dying I wpuld say they were an idiot. But ignoring your terrible analogy, the rest of what you said up there is basically proving my point. Empathy is a skill that involves imagination and extrapolation, and while on some cases it can be complicated, in this case it is not. It is very, very somple. Art evokes emotions. Celebrities evoke emotions (look up the psychology of idol admiration if you don't believe me). Therefore, an admired celebrity whose art was popular is going to have people feeling emotional. It's not rocket science.

It's one thing to not care that other people are sad. I can get behind that. But if someone is actually incapable of making the imaginative leap that allows them to understand why a hypothetical person might be sad, and the only similar situation they can think of is a pet dying, then yeah I am gonna feel justified in saying that that person is experiencing a basic empathy disconnect in that situation.