Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-06-13 04:24 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-06-13 04:24 pm
[ SECRET POST #525 ]
⌈ Secret Post #525 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
1. D:
2. Early due to zombie apocalypse. Good luck.
Secrets Left to Post: 0 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #075.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 130
The problem with most female characters in fiction is that they're either described as the nurturing, caring type (strong or otherwise), or the independent adventurous type who suffers because she's not the nurturing type. It becomes old fast. Any divergence from that is both a surprise and a breath of fresh air.
When there are as many female Luffys, Narutos, and Ichigos as there are Namis, Sakuras and Orihimes, I'll understand if people complain about one type being favoured over the other. I don't see this happening anytime soon, though.
I don't mind having guys help out, sometimes I even HAVE to have them help out because I can't do it!
There's absolutetly nothing wrong with needing help; no one can do everything. (Why would you assume only a man could help you, though?)
They make it POSSIBLE for the "hero" to do whatever he needs to do! Their supporting roles are hardly worthless!
Actually, a character who is only in a story to serve a single purpose is often called a "plot robot". It's not something that's encouraged, really. Every character, no matter their importance should have their own goals and motivations, otherwise the story will suffer for it.
Re: 130
I think that in many ways, especially in anime, these are cultural values showing through. You're fighting centuries of tradition (which should be fought! Don't get me wrong!) but it's going to take a very long time to change. In Gainex's latest (Gurren-Lagann), the character Yoko was given as an example that lines up exactly with your point. She was quite competent with a machine gun and not afraid to do her own thing. She was contrasted with the quiet and submissive, virtually useless Nia, whose only purpose was to cook terrible food, support Simon, and need to be rescued. Yoko broke the hero out of jail while Nia got herself kidnapped. Nia got a husband while Yoko was left alone. I completely understand what you're saying here, because it killed me, especially when she was shown to have attractions. It wasn't that she was asexual or anything. She just didn't get paired up.
At the same time, though, I liked Nia. She had a childlike innocence (due to her rather screwed up history) about her and a wonder at the world and she may have gotten kidnapped and had no physical strength whatsoever, but at the same time, she tried. Tried and failed, but I think that's important. People liked her because she tried (people liked Yoko as well -- she became a schoolteacher and was loved by her "children," but that's a tangent), even though she wasn't strong enough to succeed. Her quiet determination and her love for Simon made everyone more than willing to rescue her. I think that a lot of people miss that. Simon went through hell and high water (haha, literally) to get her back because he saw something in her and I don't think that's to be taken as a negative.
And haha, I was mostly talking about A) pickle jars and B) getting into male-dominated fields. I need a mentor in order to be successful at law (a problem that many females face, trying to get into the field), and many of these would be men.
I would disagree on the "plot robot" point. I present to you the case of Lucrezia Noin. Her goal in the show Gundam Wing is to ensure that Zechs Marquise (her higher-up and also longtime love) succeeds in his goals. She supports him in every way possible, tries to keep him alive, and one of the most climactic points in the entire show is her deciding whether to support him or do what she feels is right. Riza Hawkeye also fills this role -- she devotes her entire military career to protecting Roy Mustang. It's a huge character point for her and hardly makes her boring. Similarly, though not female, the mage Soren from Fire Emblem. His goal is to help one of the several heroes from the story, Ike (There's another character in the same game that does this for his female leader). He won't work for anyone else and you can't put him into anyone else's "party" due to his devotion. Without Soren, though, the game very literally could not progress because he's the game's "tactician." So there are many supporting characters who are more than just "plot robots." I actually don't think I've seen a character yet who is just a "plot robot."
Didn't mean to ramble, but you said you didn't get what I meant, so I figured I'd elaborate. I get that we might not see eye to eye on this, but I wanted to get my point of view across.
Re: 130
Which will cause you to dress in a more "masculine way"? No, sorry, just kidding. But really, All the seminars I've been to stresses that feminism is all about choice. Preferably informed choices, of course. If you want to be a housewife, be a housewife - just don't make it out to be the "true" place for women (not that I think that you do). It's not a choice I personally understand, but a choice nonetheless.
I haven't seen Gurren Lagann yet, so it's difficult for me to discuss, but Nia sounds like a rather typical female protagonist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with characters like that, but when they dominate media to the point that they become the standard, the ultimate ideal for women, there is a problem.
I present to you the case of Lucrezia Noin. Her goal in the show Gundam Wing is to ensure that Zechs Marquise (her higher-up and also longtime love) succeeds in his goals.
Yes, but that's the character's goal. It wasn't the creator's sole use of her in the plot, and therein lies the difference. Riza Hawkeye is similar; they both have protecting/supporting another character as their main goal, but they both have a history, other roles to play in the plot, and other things they care about, and most important of all: character development (which is rarely afforded to female characters, sadly).
It's not the motivation of a character that makes it a plot robot, but the reason the creator put it there. Ginny Weasley in HP was rather like that; her characterisation was completely dependent on what the writer thought was the "perfect" girl for Harry, as showed by the choppy and pieced-together characterisation (and don't get me wrong, I love the books; they have their faults, though). Her only function was to be the love-interest, to be the goal for the hero to reach at the end.
But generally speaking, I think the textbook example is something along the lines of "the young beautiful girl alone in the park at midnight, after a warning that a crazed killer is on the loose has been issued". The only reason she's there is because the writer needs someone to be attacked.