[ SECRET POST #3928 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3928 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.


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03.
[The Shape of Water]


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04.


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05. https://i.imgur.com/FFikkoI.jpg
[linked at OP's request for graphic image, worm in eyeball)


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06.


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07. https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohhwgHt2QqljARnlm/giphy.gif
[linked for moving gif]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #562.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

That's a very good point about Han/Leia, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't consider it. Maybe I'm getting old and my brain is worm-ridden. That said, I think it's probably still a useful number when talking about newer and younger fans.

The argument that Jyn is racist stems partially from her argument with Saw, but mostly from her argument with Cassian on Eadu and what follows from it. The main issue with the Saw argument is that she presents herself as apathetic to the cause (the line "it's not a problem if you don't look up" is especially jarring to a lot of people), and the fact that she's disrespectful to him doesn't help. When it comes to the Eadu argument, the general feeling is that, not only is she disrespectful, but she is very, very clearly in the wrong, and that she should have recognized this and explicitly apologized to Cassian. Instead, she never does; she uses his line in the council meeting (which is viewed as appropriative); he is warm and comforting toward her; and she effectively leads the Rogue One crew. This points to her being an instance of the White/First World Savior trope, and indicates that the writers and producers chose to prioritize whiteness over justice.

The counterargument to all of this goes: she is well within her rights to be angry with Saw, and rather than being a sincere reflection of her feelings, her lines are calculated to hurt him. On Eadu, while Cassian is less wrong, and is correct to argue that he doesn't have to justify himself to her, he is still being very unfair. Having been in charge of researching and finding her, he would know her background, so he would know that she, too, was a child soldier; that she hasn't had much of a choice; and that the rebellion was very, very real to her during the eight years that she fought with Saw. And, of course, he knows that they had to pluck her from an Imperial labor camp. That explains his warmth toward her afterwards. As for her use of his line, that's her acknowledgement of what she's learned from him, and of the things that he's right about. It would be very unlikely for her character to apologize so quickly to someone. It would probably take months, even years. And the reason she leads the team is because she's the protagonist, not because she's white.

I think you could argue the real problem is with her casting rather than with the character itself. People would have been less likely to see her as emblematic of apathetic liberals if the actress hadn't been white. That's the part that's most reflective of current reality, really.

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, that sounds super nitpicky.

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

The "Jyn is racist" argument, or the "Jyn is not racist" counter? Or both?

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

All of it.

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Hahaha well, that's the nature of meta in general, I'd say.

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't Jyn basically raised by Saw? Most of her bitchiness to him seemed to be based on anger at a flawed father figure. And of her despair.

I dunno, most of your arguments seem to me more of a case of 'person with emotional issues and zero social skills interacting with the people around her'. I mean, she's not visibly nicer to the pale-faces, is she? I really liked that they let a female character be that kind of scrappy and rude.

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh, I agree with you, and my personal feeling is that she's not a racist character at all. The above are the arguments in fandom at large.

(And they can get even more strange if you wade too deep. There's one critique out there that argues that Jyn is representative of the West, and Cassian is representative of Central and South America, and the way they interact with one another is a reflection of and tacit justification for the subjugation of Latinx people by Europeans and USAmericans)

(In other news, I think I might be a masochist)

Re: Self-indulgent incoherent and probably mildly offensive rambling about Star Wars ships and race

[(Anonymous)]

I think, I think sometimes it's best just to walk away and let them implode.