[ SECRET POST #3945 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3945 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #565.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. That's fair. I think there's a ton of stuff elsewhere in the thread that's much more involved already, and I also think that a lot of these are arguments that are by their very nature difficult to refute.

For instance, talking about "young women who feel that the only way to become happy is to become men" is an argument that fundamentally assumes the point that we're arguing about. Characterizing FTM people as young women who want to become young men to be happy is at odds with the basic idea of trans identities being real. Same with saying that someone who transitions from female to male is erasing women.

Similarly, it's hard to figure out how to argue against the idea that vague, totally unspecified "social forces" are driving people to identify as trans. How are you supposed to argue against something that's so generic? It's basically a scare quote.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Understood your other points but had some trouble with the following one:

"Characterizing FTM people as young women who want to become young men to be happy is at odds with the basic idea of trans identities being real."

How so? I haven't really had an in depth look at this sort of thing, so please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, using the wrong word or something, but my understanding of trans people is that they're people who feel discomfort with their physical sexual characteristics and the gender roles assigned to those characteristics to the point they want to transition to reduce that discomfort. So wouldn't someone born as a woman but felt discomfort with that at the very least feel relief with a transition to a man? How is it invalidating his current identity to acknowledge he were formerly perceived as female?

[(Anonymous)]

*he was

I bet there's more typos.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that the language that anon used merely acknowledged that trans males are AFAB. That's the problem that I have. The whole idea, if we're talking about their identity, which is how I take OP to be talking, is that trans males are men.