fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #549 ]

[ SECRET POST #549 ]

⌈ Secret Post #549 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[is this fandom?]

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Notes:

Going to be doing some advertising until the 15th!

livelongnmarry [LJ comm] - fandom auction type place! For a good cause.
Juxtapose Fantasy [website, art/fic] - Yaoi/slash fans - have you visited JuxtaposeFantasy yet?

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 298 secrets from Secret Submission Post #079.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Yes, totally sick of the protagonists always being male. This is very much true of a lot of children's books, as well -- main character is usually male (unless, of course, it's aimed at a specifically girl audience).

And for god's sake, all you people who are writing in and saying, "I'm a girl, and I don't like girl protagonists, go figure" or "It's not sexism, it's just the way things are," please, please do some basic reading on gender issues. Women are raised in the same culture that continually presents male characters as the human norm, and female characters as occupying some separate female-specific role. Of course a lot of us, especially those of us who are fandom geeks, are going to associate with male protagonists. That doesn't mean that it's not a problem, or that female characters should always be relegated to the sideline, to stereotypical female roles, or to being uninteresting.

Sigh. I just wish more people would demand good roles for women.

Yes. This.

"It's not sexism, it's just the way things are" wtf. It's the way things are because of sexism, dumbells!

Well, I'm a woman and I demand a sandwich. :(

Characters are just an extension of a narrative intention. Their sex is not important, only their emotions are. A good story shouldn't require determined "protagonist" for it to be attractive.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, ANON. HOW CAN FEMALES ENJOY ANYTHING WHEN THE EVIL MEN WITH THEIR PENISES THAT SHOOT VENOM AT THE TIP OF THEIR HARD, BIG (BUT POSSIBLY SMALLER REALLY BECAUSE ALL MEN COMPENSATE) COCKS TOOK OVER THE ENTIRE SERIES LEAVING A STEREOTYPE OF WOMEN.

GOD.

Well, yes. But if this is so, why do the male protagonists outnumber the females? Shouldn't it be about even if gender didn't matter to people?

Do you think there's a reason for this?

Because males tend to be the most apathetic.

Umm, were you trying to say "sympathetic"?

No.

Females focus way too much on the emotions. Nothing ever gets done.

I'd respond to that rationally, but I'm too busy crying and frothing with rage.

And as for that "nothing ever gets done," I think what you mean is, "things get done, but women get paid less to do it." Just thought I'd fix that for you.

Thank you for proving my point.

I lol'd. What flavor would you like your internets?

Re: 129

doctor-dorothy.livejournal.com - 2008-07-07 23:59 (UTC) - Expand

Nothing ever gets done because females focus too much on the emotions, yet males tend to be the most apathetic.

Yes, that makes total sense, I can see you've spent a lot of time and thought on your theory.

And males focus too little on emotions; isn't the entire point of fiction emotions? We're encultured to behave in certain manners and society judges one to be better than the other: the default and the "other," the good and the less good, the expedient and the inexpedient. But is that judgement right? HELL NO. Even if you just assume gender roles of "women = emotional, men = doers" to be accurate, BOTH are highly necessary. And the fact is that that's not accurate. Men and women are socialized to do different specific social tasks, perhaps, but both are basically human, both do the same basic things. Men and women seek revenge, men and women try to protect their loved ones, families, and communities, men and women seek acheivement. There are some diferences in the nuance of how that's done, but it's still the same basic pattern. Why is "male" the default that females are expected to identify--no, to aspire to? Why is "male" so damn superior? Because society has beaten that notion into people. We need to beat it out of them.

Also, if you want to see something get done, hypothetically, why don't you say that to my face? Becuase I may be a woman, but I would be very hard pressed not to stop myself from resorting to good old fashioned (Lol masculine) violence if someone insulted my honor as a woman by insinuating that, much less SAYING it. But I would, because fortunately I have the discretion regarding violence that is so stereotypically feminine. If you're going to deal in stereotypes, why don't I insert a big long rant here about how without women, men would have destroyed everything by now? Because that's NO MORE TRUE than women being emotional and useless for leading, but the other sex can play at the insulting stereotype game, too.

I am saying it to your face.

Get back in that kitchen and make me a sandwich.

Re: 129

obnoxdwfanbrat.livejournal.com - 2008-07-08 04:32 (UTC) - Expand

troll

I know, right? Why are they even bothering to respond? OH INTERNET.

OSHI-- SAY IT ISN'T SO.

Go take your internet psychology degree and whine somewhere else, you fucker.

A good story is a good story regardless of the gender of the main character, that's basically my point.

Sure. But that's not really the point a few of us here are trying to make. I totally agree that there are many, many good stories out there that feature male protagonists -- quite frankly, I wouldn't be able to enjoy popular culture or really, virtually ANY culture if I couldn't enjoy texts with male protagonists.

The point is that it is by no means accidental that male characters dominate cultural texts, or that we -- men and women -- find men easier to relate to. It's sad, but not accidental. And not just sad for women -- I mean, how pathetic is it that people suggest that men can't relate to female characters? Personally, I'd like to think that male audiences are smarter than that, but maybe I'm wrong.

What people like is going to vary like Soylent Soda; it's going to very from person to person. Some guys can't related to female characters at all. Some girls don't get guys at all. It's just the nature of the beast. My brother likes THE GOLDEN GIRLS and THE NANNY. While his friends look at him with, WTF, o_O, weird.

Mwuh? You're going to have to explain that to me. I saw something along those lines posted earlier, but I honestly don't follow your point.

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it less irrelevant to the issue that's being addressed. I think we're assuming that the story is going to be well-written, and granted, with better written material, it's easier for people to ignore blatant sexism and racism, but that doesn't mean that it isn't THERE.

In a single story, the sex of a character should be pretty irrelevent, yeah. But a pattern emerges, where most protags are male and most supporting characters are female. The emergent pattern is that "society says women exist to support men, and that only men (and, in slightly mor eprogressive pieces, exceptional women) are suited to lead." This pattern as a whole is dangerous and must be identified, addressed, and pressured to into dissolving if women are ever going to be equal, especially with what TV/movie cultures the West and industrialized East have become.

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