fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4052 ]

[ SECRET POST #4052 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4052 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 23 secrets from Secret Submission Post #580.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Oh, yeah, wow, look at those numbers, such a HUGE disparity.
*rolls eyes*

Ep. # Title US Views (millions)
8 "The Scorpion and the Frog" 1.73
9 "The Bad Place" 1.74
10 "Wayward Sisters" 1.85
11 "Breakdown" 1.93
12 "Various & Sundry Villains" 1.68

What's your excuse for the numbers on ep 12?

What's your excuse for the numbers on ep 12?

It was pretty obvious from the trailer that Dean was going to be ensorcelled into being in love with a woman, so I suspect that the hardcore Wincest/Destiel fans stayed away because they wanted to avoid seeing Dean kiss someone who wasn't Sam or Castiel.

I...really doubt that. But whatever. The episode in season 4, number 10, where Dean and Anna the angel have sex? Over 3 million viewers.

In season 4, Supernatural was still really good on a consistent basis.

I was mostly joking, but my friend who is a lot more involved with the fandom than I am was rolling her eyes about her Tumblr being full of "Destihellers whining about Dean having a girlfriend next episode." I realize that she's not a 100% reliable reporter, being on the other side of that particular ship war, but I wouldn't be shocked if that plot point kept at least a few shippers away.

Maybe a few, but then - nearly every episode lately would keep them away, since Castiel has had a very small role this season so far. The number of views according to Wiki just...don't hold up to the kind of 'everybody in this fandom hates women' vibe from the secret, and it's frustrating to *constantly* see that being pushed.

As a destiel shipper I've noticed that other shippers do have a bit of a fit every time Dean shows interest in a woman but they like subtext with Dean and other men. That's because a lot of destiel shippers also desperately want bi!Dean to be canon. I mean, I would like that, too but bitching about Dean flirting with or even just looking at women, yes I've seen some destiel shippers get the vapors over that, isn't going to change anything. That said, I didn't read much destiel backlash for this episode and I assume that's because Dean was under a spell.

I keep being surprised by the people who claim that what they really want is bi!Dean being upset when he shows interest in a woman, but then I remember that what most of them mean by "bi" is "gay but at this point we can't explain away his history with women so we'll take what we can get."

As someone who is actually bi, that makes me kind of cranky.

I'd love to claim Dean for Team Bisexual, because he's awesome. But I'm realistic enough to realize that's never going to happen because target audiences and demographics.

Funny how the 'target audience' makes up very few of the actual watchers, and the actual hard-core fans - women - are totally ignored by the show runners in so many ways.

I think people don't want bi=gay, but bi=an actual sometime interest in guys. If you really think (or, as the writers have seemed to do, slyly insinuate Dean might be bi), but then only ever show him hooking up with or having an interest in women, it gets frustrating.

Exactly. That's pretty much the feeling, the frustration. Honestly Supernatural is a frustrating show in many ways. I get very tired sometimes of how the show kills off it's pretty much all of reoccurring characters. I dearly love Garth but I also pray he'll never be on the show again because there's a really good chance they'd bring him back just to kill him so Sam and Dean have something to be sad about. I also get frustrated with the terrible world building.

I know that a lot of destiel shippers would take Dean being bi in canon over Cas and Dean getting together because Dean being bi is that important to them. I don't think one would happen without the other, honestly.

Yup. I *love* Show, I really do, but sometimes I just want to take the writers and bang their heads together.

Being bi myself, i would *love* a character like Dean to be canon-bi, but....*sigh*.

There's that frustration again. :)

It's all good about not logging on as yourself. As a Dean fan I want him to come out because I think it would be a huge moment for his mental health and well being. I want that for him even though I'm not bi.

Oh, I always reply as myself, just - I'm at work and can't remember my password to DW. (It's a very slow day here.)

Ack! That was me, Tabaqui, not logged in.

Er, Dean right now shows no canonical attraction to men. Dean showing interest in women at this point is just more of the same straight!Dean, hardly confirmation of bi!Dean. What is so strange about people who want him to be bi being upset when the writers continuously portray him as 100% straight?

Some hard-core shippers just cannot let it go and/or rely on fic for their 'ship. I mean - the writers seem to have inserted a few little moments of Dean maybe being bi, but then they course-correct hard-core into 'Dean loves women!!!!!' and it's frustrating.

But i don't look to the actual show to make my 'ship dreams come true, heh.

I didn't see the promo, so i've no clue, but yeah - nobody who's watched the show would think it anything more than a spell or mind-whammy or whatever.

I'm really of two minds about Castiel; I like him as a character, but I think the show works better (at least in recent years) when he's not there. With him around, the writers have to constantly be explaining why he's not going out with Sam and Dean and just smiting the monster of the week.

The rumors I'd heard about Cas getting a "factory reset" to his Season 4 personality were really intriguing. But alas, they came to naught.

I've only been in the fandom since season 9, so there's a lot of fandom history I've only heard of secondhand. But it sounded to me like a vocal minority hated Ruby and Bela because they assumed they were going to be love interests for Sam and Dean, and that's where the fandom's "woman-hating" reputation came from? I've certainly seen nothing but love for Jody, Donna, and Charlie.

They kind of screwed up with Castiel in a way. When you make characters all-powerful, you have to invent reasons why they don't *use* those powers. So Castiel getting made human, loosing his grace, etc., are all ways to keep him from being a ...literal deus ex machina.

They do okay sometimes, sometimes it's just dumb. But like you, i like the character quite a bit, and really miss the season 4 personality and quirks. Ah, well. :)

A lot of people didn't like Ruby at all because of Sam sort of 'choosing' her over Dean. And she *was* his love interest for a while. A lot of people *loved* Ruby, because they liked the notion of her character. I never did mostly because 'demon with a heart of gold who promises everything and delivers nothing' is a frustrating and irritating character, to me. Sam sleeping with her was just kind of the cherry on top, like - omg, not only does she have him bamboozled when he should know better, but now he's letting his dick make choices, too. Frustrating.

But the one-ep hook ups that both Sam and Dean have had are generally liked by most of fandom, and some even wanted them to come back, like the young woman in 'Provenance' in season 1.

Bela was a fun character, in a way, but it became annoying when they consistently dumbed down the brothers in order for her to trick them, use them, etc. At this point, i think nobody minded the boys hooking up, but to make them suddenly loose all their skills and tricks and knowledge and have to 'call Bela' every other ep, or have her just totally blindside them with something they saw through in other characters was frustrating. She was a good foil for Dean - someone who resisted his charms! - but the writers (as they generally do), couldn't figure out how to make her smarter than the boys without making the boys dumb as rocks. (An issue, in my opinion, with most every show out there and a constant source of frustration.)

Most of fandom, except for the very loud, very tin-foil-hatted few, don't have issues with most of the women in Show. Some even wanted that chick back for Sam, Amelia? She was so damn annoying but some people *loved* her. So....

Wow, sorry - guess i have thoughts! :)

I think that the fandom has changed over the years. There are hardcore SPN fans now who might love Castiel as much or more than they love Sam and Dean or they're not as invested in Sam and Dean's relationship as they are other aspects of the show. The fandom in the past was almost exclusively about Sam, Dean, and their relationship (in an incest way or a brotherhood way, depending on the fan). Those fans weren't as warm to female characters a large portion of the fandom is now because those fans came into the show after it expanded a little more past Sam and Dean. The tinfoil hatters and their like are still around, there's just more different kinds of fans now. A lot of SPN fans now are even very quick to defend female character because they identify as feminists.

Fans liked Amelia? Huh, that's news to me. I didn't see many people flat out hate her but no one I've seen thinks she served a purpose for the show but didn't like her personally.

I didn't think the boys were dumbed down for Bela, it's just that she knew things that she didn't. I think Ruby was a better written than acted character. Neither Katie nor Genevieve Cortese were great overall in the role but both had their moments. Katie’s biggest issue was that she didn’t have the chemistry with Jared Padalecki to make their eventual romance believable. Gen I don't think could really pull of the scheming, underhanded quality that was core to Ruby very well. Also Gen too little if any ques from Katie's performance so it was like they were playing two different characters. In a different universe they cast a better actress in season 3 and kept her for season 4, too.

They did think Amelia served a purpose but don't like her personally.

This is me, Tabaqui, not logged in.

I agree, fandom has changed for sure. I'm rather pleased that the most shrill and insufferable of the tin-hatters don't seem to be around any more, or at least - are on my radar any more.

Some fans *really* liked Amelia! I did not get it. From the moment she was all up in Sam's face, pestering him to adopt/take care of the dog he hit (a random guy who ran over a dog and brought him to the vet - sure, he's a perfect candidate to heckle into becoming a pet owner), I did not like her. Her/their whole arc was weird, and i'm inclined to believe it was a bit of a story-line gone wrong, as the whispers go. It was just odd. But yeah - a surprising number of people really thought she was great.

I really felt they were. When Dean shoved a whole, desiccated hand into the inner pocket of his tux jacket and, a bit later, finds it was pick-pocketed? No way. Something that big and unweildy isn't going to slip out of an *inside pocket* without someone noticing, particularly as it was wrapped up, if i remember correctly, a blue silk handkerchief. A jacket he did *not* take off and lay over a tombstone, btw. I just felt they let them be way too 'guys distracted by pretty girl' when she was in an episode; such a boring trope.

I liked Bela, but could have done without her super-tragic and rather over the top backstory. She could have been a character like Garth, that we see every now and again, with special knowledge or a line on something really unique. Meh.

I agree with your assessment of both actors and the character. I didn't think either one of them were all that awesome, and they weren't *remotely* like each other re: characterization. But then, I disliked the whole concept of the character *so much*....

It's funny, 'original' Meg and the Meg we got later weren't a whole lot alike, either, but i absolutely loved Meg, and particularly adored Rachel Miner in the role. (And Jared playing her, as well....)

Thank you for bringing facts and sanity to this thread!

I wasn't the first but man - the secret just rubbed me the wrong way.
This is me, Tabaqui, not logged in.

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[ SECRET POST #4052 ]

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Destiel shipper from before

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Fixing mistake

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