[ SECRET POST #4073 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4073 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #583.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I've listened to the criticisms. I don't agree with most of them, at all, and I think OP is right on in saying that most of the criticism is founded on people's fandom opinions and expectations more than on the movie itself. I would probably say closer to 80% than 95%, because the movie does have flaws - mostly around pacing and plotting and the Canto Bight storyline - but that's not really what people seem to want to talk about most.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

True, I thought it was a bit shallow, predictable in parts, a bit maudlin, badly paced, and filled with elements of "why didn't they try that earlier."

But, criticisms based on Luke being a cinnamon roll regarding his father (he wasn't), Jedi not abandoning a student (Kenobi), weird feminist conflict between Poe and Leia (LOL), Skywalker Rey (never convincingly developed), or Relo shipping are not even wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

My major complaint is they didn't lean hard enough on the disillusioned Luke storyline. I actually liked the space gambling scene, but it could have definitely been cut for some more development on that front.

Also, they killed him off. They could have milked the disillusioned thing for a bit, and then had a more established payoff.

As it stands NOW, the films just meh. It may be better when we know where it leads later with the last of the new trilogy. But now it's just...they had a lot of ideas, but didn't lean into them enough.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yep.

And even with elements like being slightly shallow and predictable - yeah, those things are true, to some extent. But those things are also pretty universal with Star Wars movies. I don't think, in particular, that TFA was any less shallow or predictable than TLJ. I might even say that it was more shallow. But it didn't have the pacing problems, and also, TFA was basically Star Wars Plays The Hits.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Disney's distributed worse franchise films.

[(Anonymous)]

That's almost damning with faint praise.

[(Anonymous)]

Quite honestly, I have a lot of criticism that's mostly based in the bad writing, abysmal continuity errors, plot holes, bad character development and pointless contrived plot elements that serve no other purpose the stroking the director's ego. And a lot of people share those criticisms.
But someone who is head over heels in love with that movie will never listen to a single point those criticisms make without trying to dismiss it as dumb fans just not getting what they wanted, not understanding the movie or being stoopid poopy heads. So I'm pretty tired of even trying to discuss it.
As much as fans of TLJ try to paint every critical opinion as rabid fantards throwing a tantrum, they are very good at the tantrum throwing when confronted with an opinion they don't like themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

Behold, a comment that is definitely not a tantrum.

[(Anonymous)]

You just demonstrated my point perfectly.

[(Anonymous)]

no u

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty much this.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

OK, but my experience is that, when someone talks about problems with the writing and character development, the reason that they think that the writing and character development is bad is often because it doesn't line up with their expectations and ideals of what Star Wars should be. And when they talk about continuity errors and plot holes, what they often seem to mean is that their fan theories weren't confirmed.

That's just my experience, obviously, not a universal truth, but it does seem to happen pretty frequently. I'm totally willing to listen to you and be proven wrong, though!

[(Anonymous)]

I won't get into detail but my main issues with the movie are:

In some places, continuity with the first movie is a huge mess.
The main plot is basically a very slow, very idiotic chase scene.
The movie tries to be a Marvel knockoff in terms of "every scene must have a dumb snarky oneliner or punchline, no matter if it fits the scene or not" and it really doesn't work in a lot of cases.
Characters are being obtuse to the point of ridiculousness.
Most characters have no natural development but act in a way that's contrived to move a plot along that's neither well thought through, nor well executed.
There are too many "messages" in the movie that directly contradict each other.
Too many very long scenes that do nothing for the movie plot or character development while key scenes that should have been important get rushed along or take place off screen.
Former main characters being demoted to supporting characters and comic relief.
The kiss came out if the fucking nowhere and was very unnecessary.
A lot in this movie felt like it was just the director trying to be as contrary and "I bet you didn't expect THAT" as possible just for the sake of being contrary.

Of course this is all up for discussion, some of it (where it comes to humour etc.) is definitely a matter of taste. But very little of it has to do with fan theories or things I hoped would happen - if I started on that I'd be here all night.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

For what it's worth, this is my experience as well, and not just in Star Wars fandom.