fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4098 ]

[ SECRET POST #4098 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4098 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #587.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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You know what the cool thing about movies is? You can rewatch them for quotes.

In the movie, they said the German special forces are not going to take them alive. Just like in The Winter Soldier, the ONLY reason Steve/Bucky were not killed was because they were in public. That is literally the only thing that saved them. Or do you think those machine guns were for fun.

When Bucky is brought into UN (?), Steve asks about lawyer. Ross laughs at him about that. So no, he wasn't going to get any kind of due process.

Oh, and remember where Steve's team were at the end of the movie? That is right, the Raft. So unless they had the shortest trials in the history of trials, they were immediately locked away after being captured.

Again, did you watch the movie?

So what if they decided on a kill order for Bucky because he appeared too dangerous to be brought in safely? That proved to be true, didn't it, when Zemo triggered him. And Bucky was an international assassin and criminal. IT STILL WASN'T STEVE'S DECISION. He broke the law by circumventing the authorities. By going to Bucky first and telling him there was a kill order on him (great idea, Steve, if you wanted to de-escalate the situation. Idiot.) Warning him and then fighting with him against the German task force. So any argument on your part is purely...I dunno. Heartfelt, but not legal.

But it doesn't matter what Sharon Carter *said* (btw, she wasn't on the task force, so she is not the authority, here.) it matters what they did. They didn't kill Bucky. They didn't kill Steve. And they had every reason to. Because they were both, at this point, capital criminals and a threat to public safety. They'd proven it, now. In a really ugly way.

And there is a thing where you actually lock poeple UP before their trial. Trials take a long time to put together, as you said. And when the criminals are superhuman, and have already escaped custody once (killing people in the process) you don't just put them in a regular jail cell.

But whatever, Steve should just be judge and jury, right? His hands are safest. Due process is for...the little people. He gets to decide if Bucky even gets indicted! Because a scientist injected Steve with some blue stuff and then Howard Stark shot him with vitarays. So of course American Steve Rogers decides whether international criminal, The Winter Soldier, can be brought in by an international terrorist task force.

Yup. Truth and Justice, the American Way.

...Bucky was innocent and they were going for shoot to kill without evidence. How is this hard for you.

So what if they decided on a kill order for Bucky because he appeared too dangerous to be brought in safely?

What? All they had to do was have Steve bring him in. Or put out a press release asking Bucky to give himself up. It was shown in the movie (and said) that Bucky didn't want to kill people and wanted to be held accountable. He just didn't want to be MURDERED without trial. But fuck him, right?

That proved to be true, didn't it, when Zemo triggered him.

Yes, a tortured man was being mind controlled and used as a weapon. How is that HIS fault? Also, easy solution to that problem would be to keep people away who will use him as a weapon.

They didn't kill Bucky. They didn't kill Steve.

They tried to though. That is the point. If Steve had not warned Bucky, there is a very good chance he could have been executed while just hanging out in his apartment. They would have then killed an innocent man.

And there is a thing where you actually lock people UP before their trial.

Uhhh, as soon as you are arrested you have a right to an attorney. Again, you can't legally just lock someone up without due process. That is illegal. What the UN (?) was doing was ILLEGAL.

You really seem like the kind of person who always supports cops who shoot people, loves Guantanamo Bay, and is for the death penalty.

THANK YOU! I am so tired of Team Iron Man fans painting everything they did in a rosy light. No, Cap isn't perfect, but he seemed to have a clearer understanding of what those Accords were going to do to/with enhanced persons than Tony ever did.

I still don't get why businessman Tony would sign a contract and argue "We can change it AFTER signing it!" Where is Pepper when you need her to smack some sense into him?

Right? I can see the appeal of the Accords, I guess, but from a strictly narrative standpoint, they were awful all around.

Because every single decision Tony has made since the first Avengers movie has been based on fear, not sense.

It still boggles me that Team Iron Man has such strong objections to everything Steve has done but is willing to give Tony a free pass on Ultron and all the death and destruction that resulted from it because Tony is their precious woobie/cinnamon roll.

It still boggles me that Team Iron Man has such strong objections to everything Steve has done but is willing to give Tony a free pass on Ultron and all the death and destruction that resulted from it because Tony is their precious woobie/cinnamon roll.

Yes, this.

Who says we give Tony a free pass? We're just not happy with Team Cap acting as if everything he's done was Right and Just! So maybe both of our sides are a bit over the top in how we express our emotions sometimes, okay?

I'm a fan leaning towards Team Iron Man, but man, I'm not blind to his faults.

No one ever said Steve was without fault, just that in the context of the movie, his actions are comparatively more "Right and Just" than what Tony was doing. Ignoring canon information and making wild accusations based on non-canon facts because of their emotions is a thing that Team Iron Man tends to do a lot.

But you love Tony for his faults and think they make him interesting, while you think Steve's faults (which do not involve creating an AI of mass destruction) make him a jackass.

Uh, no. Different anon here.

I don't even like these movies, but it's not exactly rocket science. As far as every canon character is concerned, Steve's always right in the end and Tony's always wrong. Black and white, no nuance, just -- the ends always justify Steve's means, and Tony Stark's a fuckup who should have known better. And meanwhile, characters like Wanda and Bruce get a free pass both from the other characters and from Team Fuck Iron Man for their sizeable contributions to whatever we're blaming Tony for this time around. So you got Tony fans overcompensating for canon's inability to ever cut their guy a break and Steve fans piling on the hate even though they really have no need to since the canon already explicitly states that Captain America was right all along. Tony's fans woobify him to crazy levels, and Steve's fans are the sorest damn winners ever.

"Sizeable contributions" like Wanda giving Tony a bad dream much like she gave everyone else and Bruce grudgingly assisting Tony after voicing his concerns and having them waved off without consideration? It's not giving either of them a "free pass" to say that neither of them are responsible for Tony's own actions (which he was planning to go through with from the start of AoU with the Iron Legion, which as a former Iron Man fan shocked me given how IM3 ended).

You have a very skewed and biased view of what actually happened.

Steve's fans are the sorest damn winners ever.

I don't see how resenting the ridiculous amount of accusations and hate piled on Steve after CW makes Steve's fans "sore losers."

SA "sore winners", sorry. :(

Sore winners. And the replies to this thread haven't done anything to change my mind about it. Based on this thread alone, you'd be reaching Voltron levels of fandom fuckery if your side had lost.

The replies in this thread have been correcting hyperbolic accusations that are not consistent with canon, not gloating.

Uhhh, as soon as you are arrested you have a right to an attorney. Again, you can't legally just lock someone up without due process. That is illegal. What the UN (?) was doing was ILLEGAL.

Yes, you can. That's maybe not procedure in the US, but you can certainly lock them up first while waiting for their attorney to arrive. Especially when they are a flight risk.

It was explicitly stated that Bucky was not getting an attorney at all.

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[ SECRET POST #4098 ]

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