fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #562 ]

⌈ Secret Post #562 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 446 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - Walken ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Did you even watch the show? You're right in that, for the first eight episodes, he was filled with Kamina. And then he spent the next two and a bit episodes trying to be Kamina, to try and fill the void Kamina's death left. But then in episode eleven, he stopped letting Kamina define him; He stopped trying to be Kamina, just decided to become himself, Simon the Digger. And after that, I've got no idea what you're talking about. He wanted to help Nia, for sure, but he wasn't a hanger-on of her personality, like he was with kamina. Shit, if anyone was clinging to someone's coat-tails, it was Nia.

TL;DR: Canon says your interpretation is ridiculous.

IAWTC!

Secret poster apparently missed one of the most important themes of the series.

because personal interpretation is nothing if they don't agree with you. *nod*

No, personal interpretation is incorrect if canon flat-out says that they are wrong.

tell you what. if I'm ever inclined to watch this show, I'll make up my own mind instead of relying on a 1:49 minute clip for which I can't even read or make out the subtitles.

in the meantime, I'll declare you THE WINNAR! and continue to think you're an idiot in general.

That's nice. And I'll continue to think you're an idiot for trying to argue interpretations of a show you haven't even watched.

Uh this is secret 154. I have no idea where my header went. =/

I agree with the first part, but just because he was his own person doesn't mean he can't be dependent on Nia, does it? I mean - I don't think he was entirely defined by her, but she was one of his main reasons for living, and with her gone he just went "Huh. Well, I did everything I wanted to do, whaddya know" and fell off the surface of existence, pretty much. That's one of the things I liked best about Simon and Nia's relationship - he needed her as much as she needed him.

You're using personal interpretation to make a point, too. I thought Gurren-Lagann was a brilliant show, but the way these characters relied on others to shape their own identity was part of that brilliance. Simon relied on Nia, he fought for Nia and followed Nia's wishes. Nia relied as much on him as Simon relied on her, but the fact remains that without each others both are basically empty glasses with no ideas of their own. Simon's down-to-earth, very humble personality only came to glorious fruition thanks to his relationship with Nia. Simon wasn't inherently Simon, Simon was only Simon because he met with Nia just like Nia was only Nia because she met with Simon. That's all there is to it.

Just consider the third arc, how the one thing to "push" forward Simon's determination to fight and survive was Nia's intervention. The conclusion to episode 20 is a perfect example of this. Besides, in the third canon novel written by Kazuki Nakajima, Simon declares Nia as necessary for his own personality.

...the sad thing is, even though I don't really agree with your secret, you still seem to grasp the point of the show better than most of the people I've seen talking about it, who just go "omg it's all about how you can do anything if you try hard enough!"

You almost seem to be arguing in weird circular logic here, though (maybe that's not the right term; it's late and I'm tired)...your secret implied you didn't like Simon for being so defined by Nia, but here you're talking about how the themes were brilliance. Personally, I'm inclined to think that the theme about identity the show is trying to drive home is that people shape each other's personalities, but that doesn't make them any less themselves. It just makes everyone's selves entangled.

Do you have any links to where I can find quotes/translations from these novels, by the way? I'm working on the

ship_manifesto essay for Simon/Nia, and it sounds like they'd be pretty helpful.

I wrote down some notable details from the 3rd novel over here (http://csakuras.livejournal.com/tag/novel+3) if you'd like (with the illustrations here (http://community.livejournal.com/gurren_lagann/227664.html)).

XD; Feel free to ask for any specific quotes if you need any. Simon/Nia is my OTP big time so I'd be happy to help.

Thank you very much! I'll save those. :)

but the fact remains that without each others both are basically empty glasses with no ideas of their own.

Doesn't that statement go against the whole individuality theme though? To quote Nia: "We are different people, and we always will be different people. But that's why I think we can live together." Simon is inherently Simon, Nia is inherently Nia, and they are mutually dependent in that they remind each other of that fact- Nia by telling Simon he is fine as he is, Simon by telling Nia she should live as herself regardless of why she was born.

Simon's down-to-earth, very humble personality only came to glorious fruition thanks to his relationship with Nia.

Simon was down-to-earth from the beginning (that's what saved Kamina many times). But he was trying so hard to become Kamina when he met Nia, and she was the one who told him that it was okay for him to be himself.

Simon declares Nia as necessary for his own personality.

In the novel, Simon thinks he needs her. He didn't say that she created his personality. In fact, let me translate that passage for you (it's from the scene where he is looking up at Kamina's statue after his proposal is rejected):

He had no concern for the fact that Nia was the daughter of the Helix King Lord Genome.
She is herself. He needed her, and she needed him. That should be enough.

OP here. Confession: I actually agree with you on most points, I was using "wanky" language to get more responses. :D

[ SECRET POST #562 ]

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