[ SECRET POST #4197 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4197 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #601.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://abload.de/img/parentqakhd.png

[(Anonymous)]

Well, are there any other differences between them that could maybe explain the different reaction?

[(Anonymous)]

There’s a degree of manipulation with both but Ben at least was on orders to kill her and took her to prevent that from happening. Gothel kidnapped Rapunzel because she needed Rapunzel’s magic hair to stay youthful.

There’s also far more gaslighting on the part of Gothel in keeping her locked up and convincing her the world was out to get her.

[(Anonymous)]

Ben at least had more altruistic motives as Widmore wanted to kill her.

Gothel kidnapped Rapunzel because she wanted to stay young and needed Rapunzel’s hair to do so.

[(Anonymous)]

But he still kept her from her mother after he had Widmore exiled.

[(Anonymous)]

He should have told her the truth about her mother but I can understand, to a degree that he considered Rousseau to be too dangerous to be let around Alex. I think he wasn't always a good father, sometimes he was even a bad one, but I never doubted that he loved her. Heck, just look at his sideways. They revolved notably around Alex being happy and him having a good relationship with her. Appart that they both kidnaped the child that they've raised, for two very differents reasons like it had been explain by the previous post,their situations aren't comparable at all for me.

[(Anonymous)]

I also think Gothel loved Rapunzel, but I think I'm more willing to define love on a broader spectrum than a lot of people are. Obviously, Gothel's love was toxic, but I don't think love is always pure and selfless. Obviously, Gothel was using Rapunzel for her powers, and obviously, Gothel actively manipulated Rapunzel's fears and feelings. But I think Gothel did go out of her way to make Rapunzel happy at times (like getting her the birthday present she wanted), even though she didn't need to. So I think at least she has real affection for Rapunzel, and I don't think she wants Rapunzel to be unhappy. Sometimes love is fucked up. Sure, on a poetic level, love should be totally selfless etc., but I don't think it always operates like that in the real world.

[soldatsasha]

ia I think one of the most damaging 'myths' I guess that gets spread is that abusers never feel love for their victims. Plenty of us had abusers that absolutely 100% loved us, but love doesn't stop people from doing awful things. And plenty of abusers don't think they're abusive bc they love their victims. Often love is the emotion driving a lot of the really awful actions an abuser takes.

I think it's important to separate emotions from actions. You can love someone and do shitty things to them, either bc you think it's for their own good or bc you love them less than you love other things.

There's a lot of Disney movies that show this, and it's a really important lesson for kids to learn. I mean, how parents can love you but still do bad things to you. Like Trident destroying Ariel's stuff. We're supposed to understand WHY he did it (he loves her and he's afraid she's going to get hurt), but he still did the wrong thing. Gothel is monstros, but that doesn't mean that she has no emotions or can't also feel love for the girl she's raised.

[(Anonymous)]

this is a very good comment (not because i know anything about the topic, it's just a very interesting point/food for thought!)

[soldatsasha]

*Triton lmao

[(Anonymous)]

This is a very good comment. Also, I thought Trident was his name for the longest time. Lol

[(Anonymous)]

But literally all her affectionate gestures are towards the hair and aim at keeping her from wanting to leave. She literally refers to Rapunzel as a flower half the time. That's... She loves Rapunzel like someone loves their skin cream.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, absolutely - I think Ben Linus was less abusive than Gothel, but they were both abusive and liars. And they both loved their kids just as long as those kids stayed in line, but don't worry, as a parent they'll make sure they do.

[(Anonymous)]

Because abuse doesn't equal love. And gaslighting counts as a kind of emotional abuse so...

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... are there actually that many people in both of these fandoms who can accept one but not the other? Is that actually a comparison/discussion that takes/took place? Because these are two very different fandoms to compare (and quite some time apart iirc?).

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it was because Gothel was played as an over-the-top, manipulative gas-lighter, and even when she was nice to Rapunzel she treated her more like a special pet than a person? Just a thought.

[(Anonymous)]

Gothel's love was for Rapunzel's hair only. That's it. All of her affectionate gestures are intended to keep Rapunzel happy at her and healing her and are directed largely toward her hair. So I'm sorry, but I think if she loves Rapunzel, it's how a vain woman loves her beauty cream.

[(Anonymous)]

Watch Gothel closely. She calls Rapunzel "flower", she looks at her hair, touches her hair, in the image you used she is hugging Rapunzel's hair. She doesn't love Rapunzel. She loves the magic she got first through the flower, then through the hair. Rapunzel is a means to an end, who, at a stretch, Gothel was fond of. But she didn't love or value her beyond her hair.

As someone raised by a narcissistic mother...

[(Anonymous)]

There's a lot of similarities between my mom and Gothel. I know my mother loves me, but I can never separate her ulterior motives and toxicity from that love. Many children of narcissistic parents go no-contact for that reason, because the parent's actions are abusive despite how much they claim to care and love. I can work on having a real relationship with my mother now that I'm no longer living under her roof, but when I was living with her I felt like a prisoner just like Rapunzel did.
(Sorry I can't speak much of the other relationship mentioned in OP's secret).

I was my mother's "supply" like how Rapunzel "supplied" Gothel with her magic hair fix. It was in Gothels' best interest to keep Rapunzel happy so as to not jeopardize that supply. I'm positive that being perceived as a good mother fed into Gothel's ego as well (my mom wanted to look like a good parent to others; repeated how good she was to me while behaving towards me in ways that made me think otherwise). Remember, Gothel didn't think she was the "bad guy" to Rapunzel up until the end of the movie. Narcissists never think of themselves that way. If and when they do, they're only being bad because it's someone else's fault and they're being forced to act that way.
Gothel probably thought, "Why can't Rapunzel just be content with the life I provided for her in the tower? I'm not physically abusing her, and she feels loved. So what's wrong if I get a little kickback from her hair? I take care of her, and look at how she's rejected me for someone else she just met!"

Gothel loved Rapunzel in the capacity of how a narcissistic parent can, which probably isn't saying much for most people.