fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4208 ]

[ SECRET POST #4208 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4208 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #602.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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It's the prequel movie for a mediocre anime that was hailed as an "LGBT champion" because of fanservice so ridiculous that it was hard to tell whether it was satire or not. A lot of fangirls + a lot of wishful thinking = the fanservice was taken for canon. Now, a lot of them are upset because the movie is set to take place a decade before the supposed couple even met and that's not nearly gay enough.

[nayrt] you're an asshole

OK, but there's still things I'm confused about. Why is this apparent teen!victor/chris pairing delusional? And especially, what does OP mean by all that stuff about love interests and Star Wars and dudebros. Just, like, what is going on with all of that.

DA

I think the Marvel is in reference to the "shoehorning" in of Sharon Carter in Captain America: Civil War, which some people saw as a way to negate any Steve/Bucky vibes. And the Star Wars might be about Solo and the fact that Han had a previously unmentioned, but apparently pretty significant to his backstory, relationship prior to him and Leia.

To me, it sounds like OP thinks other fans are unfamiliar with how manga and anime broadly tend to be the brainchild of a single person. OP seems to think these other fans believe it works like the corresponding US industries, with multiple universes/retcons/what have you, and where franchises belonging to big publishers will see new creative teams being hired to have their own go at the material, even if it contradicts the visions of someone who worked with it before.

(not OP)

Victor says he hasn't had love and live in over 17+ years. We know he had relationships, but they probably were, at best, superficial and not something that can be called "love."

Giving Victor a "love interest" (be it Chris, or some random female characters to cater to self-inserters) or making the movie about his "love life" would contradict canon, and YOI isn't like big canons with many time lines, canon AUs, plot points that are forgotten just because, etc.

Oh god, you're one of those.

Two dudes could be buttfucking on screen and you'd still say it was just fanservice.

Sailor Moon. Cardcaptor Sakura. Revolutionary Girl Utena. Yurikuma Arashi. No. 6.

Add Samurai Flamenco, Tiger and Bunny, and Evangelion, if you want to argue about what constitutes "canon". There is also an adaptation of Banana Fish airing that is probably going to end up in the same place.

There's a difference between same-sex relationships as a part of the story, and steamy fanservice that is just "up to the viewers interpretation".

Yes, that other anon was right, you're one of those. Please go wank about shows being "not canon enough" or "too fanservice" somewhere else.

I'm a different anon, but I didn't see anything too bad with the basics of that post? Like I'm pretty sure Yuri on Ice representation in a way, but also queerbaiting is also a thing that exists.

That comment (specially those lists) doesn't even make sense, and they aren't even discussing "queerbaiting" (a word that lost its meaning a long time ago).

Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura only have implied relationships, Yurikuma Arashi is pure fanservice, yet anon seems to consider them in the same level as Revolutionary Girl Utena and No. 6, which aren't pure fanservice and have canon same sex relationships?

The other list is weirded because... well, those shows don't deserve to be lumped together.

Samurai Flamenco is... hard to define, and depends if you accept the director's word as canon or not; Tiger and Bunny is nothing but shippy jokes and the people in charge joking about being able to see the mains' relationships as a romances; Evangelion... I only saw the anime, but it has one one-sided m/m ship, and I've heard the new movies [or one of the mangas? IDK] makes it less one sided; and Banana Fish main relationship is just platonic, but it doesn't lack of homosexuality and it isn't full of fanservice.

And all this about YOI... is just the same wank all over again. People complain about it being "too shippy" to the point it shouldn't be called a sport anime, people complain about it not being shippy enough, people insist everything is just fanservice and anyone who takes things at face value is an idiot, etc. There's nothing new to discuss, everyone already pick their side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgElINjowzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcBnQQ3X-10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChcgtvCV7oA

"implied"

+ a dissection of Yurikuma Arashi's portrayal of wlw
https://harostar.tumblr.com/post/118678790116/what-yuri-kuma-arashi-was-really-about-why-it

FWIW, I'm really indifferent about YOI, but I'm extremely done with a fandom that is largely ignorant about the history of same-sex love in anime, and in happy denial about what audience YOI was made for.

Sweetie, I grew up with Sailor Moon and CCS I would never say those ships aren't canon, BUT they weren't more explicitly confirmed than Victor/Yuuri, so if YOI is going to get all that shit about not making a ship "canon enough," then those other animes deserve the same criticisms instead of being praised as being better than YOI.

And about YA, it is full of fanservice.

Funny that; I grew up on them too, and I've continued watching anime get increasingly bold in its flirtation with fujoshi viewers. It might be very western of me to hold media in 2016 to higher standards than media in 1996 when it gets to how explicit they are about queer content, but that's the point: the shows I mentioned make clear beyond all doubt that these same-sex romances are happening. YOI is so full of fanservice that there's no room for doubting its audience, and the "romantic" parts of Victor and Yuuri's relationship has A LOT of moments that are directly afterwards treated with some sort of "lol jk not in a GAY WAY"

Did you read the post? It details how YA uses the fanservice for making a commentary on the way wlw is used as fanservice.

the "romantic" parts of Victor and Yuuri's relationship has A LOT of moments that are directly afterwards treated with some sort of "lol jk not in a GAY WAY"

Like... when Yuuri structured an entire performance around seducing Viktor? Or when Yuuri bought them matching rings, put them out outside a church, and Viktor announced their engagement (which all their friends and peers treated completely seriously)? Or the kiss that the anime's creators had to be strong-armed into obscuring? What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Citation fucking needed, pal.

(oh yeah, nayrt)

YOI is so full of fanservice that there's no room for doubting its audience, and the "romantic" parts of Victor and Yuuri's relationship has A LOT of moments that are directly afterwards treated with some sort of "lol jk not in a GAY WAY"

Not ayrt but... what? Seriously, what? Every single intimate moment between Yuri and Victor is treated seriously. The only sort-of exceptions I can think of is once before Yuri's Eros dance he grabs Victor to make a show of seducing him to "intimidate the crowds" before they intimidate him.. but that's not really a joke, more an implication that he's firing himself up. Otherwise, Phichit saying congratulations for getting married... which IS a misunderstanding, because they didn't get married. Victor spins it into an engagement line, which might not be serious so much as a challenge but it also is not comedic at all.

There was nothing "lol not gay!" about the kiss, or Yuri dedicating all of his Eros skates to seducing Victor, or the exchanging of rings, or Victor and Yuri running to embrace in the airport, or the "break up", or the pair exhibition skate. The pair were very seriously written as romantic, if "between the lines" to some extent - the whole show centered around this. It doesn't really matter who it was written for, when it's not just random hot homoeroticism here and there between the het for the sake of selling merch to fangirls. The relationship is done seriously, period.

I'm curious what parts you were thinking of that were "no homo". The only bit I can think of is near the beginning when Victor's leaning in all close to Yuri, who freaks and scoots back, but I thought that was more nervousness on Yuri's part than a "no homo" reaction.

I don't understand why you defend YA so much.

It's not that deep. The symbolism is pretty obvious, it's message/theme is very unsubtle, and even if you think the fanservice is a commentary (something the post doesn't say LOL. Maybe you linked the wrong post? Either way, I don't agree with you; the show does has a commentary, but it isn't about fanservice), it doesn't change that the show is full of it.

And yet you thing YA is "good," but the fanservice in Yoi makes YOI bad?

But what's the fanservice in YOI? Them being naked a few times while bathing? Sayo wanting to focus on male sensuality? That has nothing with Victor and Yuuri's relationship, which, like everyone else is saying, is treated seriously.

Also, it's worth saying that such relationship is the main one of the show and involves the main characters, instead of being a background relationship of secondary characters, like CCS or SM. But sure, blame your "new standards" and insist YOI is bad and no homo, even though there isn't even one no homo moment in the whole show.

Found the delusional yuri fan writing essays on F!S to justify being buttmad that their favorite canon F/F show wasn't a mega-hit like YOI.

It's been a while, but I thought the only canon gay relationship in Cardcaptor Sakura was between her brother and Yukito and they were way less overt than Yuri and Victor.

It is. CLAMP are experts in never confirming any same sex ships (unless it's one sided, platonic love).

But I guess Yukito saying he loves Touya and them always being "studying" together is more valid that... all YOI.

(It's also amusing to see Yurikuma Arashi on that list. More than one f/f ship was kind-of-confirmed, but the whole show is very fanservicy and things were... justified in weird ways)

Haha, there were lots, but aside from Toyua/Yukito, they were all one-sided. Syaoran had a crush on Yukito for something like 2/3 of the run, and him being Sakura's "love rival" was a frequently recurring thing. Tomoyo was in love with Sakura, and her mother had been in love with Sakura's mother. It was heavily suggested that Yue had been in love with Clow. Except for Yue-Clow, these were all more or less outright stated, depending on how you define "outright" in a show for children.

What does that have to do with my comment, though? Yuri and Victor are blatantly part of the story, not "just steamy fanservice". Their romance literally is the story.

da Not sure if I missed something, but I'm pretty sure the creators said the 'supposed couple' are indeed canonically together.

Being this bitter about a successful franchise not aimed at dudebros.

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[ SECRET POST #4208 ]

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