[ SECRET POST #4220 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4220 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #603.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Warning, essay incoming

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. There is no way of knowing with any certainty what a historical person's actual preferences were. Sure, there are people whose sexual behavior is well-documented - but to be clear, someone's sexual behavior doesn't always align with their sexual interests, and at any rate, so many historical claims of someone's homosexuality comes from secondary sources, sometimes not even contemporary secondary sources, and the intent of the writing can also be suspicious.

That being said, it's not a question whether or not there were bisexual or homosexual people in the past. That can be assumed. But it is difficult to attribute an orientation with any certainty on historical people. Hell, I can't figure out my own sexuality most of the time, and I'm a modern living person who is also me.

I think it's also fair to be cautious of biological women living as men. There are a wide array of reasons why a woman might live as a man - or even a man as a woman - that don't have anything to do with personal gender identity. This doesn't imply that people who certainly identified as the opposite gender did not exist, but a woman who lived as a man could very well identify as a woman just like a biological woman who lives as a woman could certainly identify as a man.

Re: Warning, essay incoming

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's also fair to be cautious of biological women living as men. There are a wide array of reasons why a woman might live as a man

I agree with this so much. People seem to forget how bad it sucked to be a woman just a few decades ago let alone a few centuries.

Re: Warning, essay incoming

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Sure, some women passed as men for professional and career reasons. That's only one part of possibly-trans history, and there's a pretty bad trend right now of using those cases to falsify all of possibly-trans history.

Re: Warning, essay incoming

[(Anonymous)]

Professional and career reasons, sure. Personal freedom and financial or physical security reasons, absolutely. Maybe they liked men's clothing better and felt more comfortable with a stereotypically masculine presentation. Point being, there are many reasons why a woman might choose to present as a man that doesn't have anything to do with gender identity.

There's a difference between erasing the possibility of trans history and cautioning that we have no evidence to prove certain historical people actually identified as the opposite gender and had an identity we could call trans. I think we have to be critical and objective on both sides of the argument and understand upfront that we will most likely never know the truth of virtually any historical person's gender identity. This is true on the flip side - just because someone doesn't choose to present as the opposite sex doesn't mean they don't identify as such.

Re: Warning, essay incoming

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Who actively working in the area of queer history is claiming proof?