fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #582 ]

⌈ Secret Post #582 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

__________________________________________________

102.

__________________________________________________

103.

__________________________________________________

104.

__________________________________________________

105.

__________________________________________________

106.

__________________________________________________

107.

__________________________________________________

108.

__________________________________________________

109.

__________________________________________________

110.

__________________________________________________

111.

__________________________________________________

112.

__________________________________________________

113.

__________________________________________________

114.

__________________________________________________

115.

__________________________________________________

116.

__________________________________________________

117.

__________________________________________________

118.

__________________________________________________

119.

__________________________________________________

120.

__________________________________________________

121.

__________________________________________________

122.

__________________________________________________

123.

__________________________________________________

124.

__________________________________________________

125.

__________________________________________________

126.

__________________________________________________

127.

__________________________________________________

128.

__________________________________________________

129.

__________________________________________________

130.

__________________________________________________

131.

__________________________________________________

132.

__________________________________________________

133.

__________________________________________________

134.

__________________________________________________

135.

__________________________________________________

136.

__________________________________________________

137.

__________________________________________________

138.

__________________________________________________

139.

__________________________________________________

140.

__________________________________________________

141.

__________________________________________________

142.

__________________________________________________

143.

__________________________________________________

144.

__________________________________________________

145.

__________________________________________________

146.

__________________________________________________

147.

__________________________________________________

148.

__________________________________________________

149.

__________________________________________________

150.

__________________________________________________

151.

__________________________________________________

152.

__________________________________________________

153.

__________________________________________________

154.

__________________________________________________

155.

__________________________________________________

156.

__________________________________________________

157.

__________________________________________________

158.

__________________________________________________

159.

__________________________________________________

160.

__________________________________________________

161.

__________________________________________________

162.

__________________________________________________

163.

__________________________________________________

164.

__________________________________________________

165.

__________________________________________________

166.

__________________________________________________

167.

__________________________________________________

168.

__________________________________________________

169.

__________________________________________________

170.

__________________________________________________

171.

__________________________________________________

172.

__________________________________________________

173.

__________________________________________________

174.

__________________________________________________

175.

__________________________________________________

176.

__________________________________________________

177.

__________________________________________________

178.

__________________________________________________

179.

__________________________________________________

180.

__________________________________________________

181.

__________________________________________________

182.

__________________________________________________

183.

__________________________________________________

184.

Notes:

FS Layout Contest. Contest entries close August 10th!

Secrets Left to Post: 22 pages, 546 secrets from Secret Submission Post #084.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well, I guess it's a good thing she never got one. Because she was still alive.

(I think the gang thing was sexism in action, however. Imagine if Tim got stripped of his cape, and he tried to pull off something like what Steph did-- maybe he would have flubbed it, but his efforts would have been redeemed at the end. Steph, though...)

I'm aware. I was more making a point about the massive outcry about zomgmemorial since that went hand in hand with anyone talking about Spoiler before her return. I wasn't clear in that point though. I am thankful that the writers at least threw in that Bruce suspected and that's why there wasn't a memorial. Because if Steph and Leslie pulled on over on the World's Greatest Detective? That would have pissed me off more.

(I don't see it that way, I guess? I see it more as the difference between Tim and Steph as Robin. Tim was trained and competent. Steph wasn't, at least not on that level. She was brash, acted out, and ended up setting something in motion that she shouldn't have. Because she should have known that, the plan being Batman's, there was stuff involved that she didn't know. Shitty writing more than shitty character? Probably, but it ruined Steph-as-Robin for me. If Jason Todd had pulled the same trick? Yeah, it would have failed just as spectacularly for the same reasons it failed for Steph. )

As I mentioned downthread, I think the memorial outcry is because Steph encapsulates a lot of issues female fans have with the treatment of heroines-- she's a Robin-- part of a line of sidekicks with a long history of being important. And then her character was treated as less competent and got killed off without even as much acknowledgment as the Robin fans voted to kill. It's was sort of the essence of everything that people have problems with, you dig?

(Personally, I feel like had any other Robin been given that storyline, they would have been redeemed, or at least got a deserved dressing down, and then forgiveness at the end. I saw it not as selfishness, but as a fateful attempt at proving her worth-- which is something other Robins have done, and are usually vindicated. Her sin was in thinking herself as worthy as Dick, Jason and Tim.)

The whole "part of a line of sidekicks with long history of being important" was half of the reason I get so mad seeing Steph-as-Robin. She was not good in the role, she lacked in inate selflessness that a Robin has to have. Even Jason was selfless to a certain extent. But Steph? The only selfless thing she *ever* did was give her baby up for adoption. Everything else that she ever did was just to further some goal of her own - whether that was getting back at her dad, forcing her way into the bat-family, or stealing Tim away from the girlfriend she *knew* he had - it was always about *her*.

Steph didn't get the acknowledgement as Robin becasue she *didn't deserve it.* It wasn't becasue she was a girl, people just try to *make* it that way. That's not the way it was.

(And personally, neither Dick nor Tim would *ever* commit that storyline, because it's simply not in the nature of their characters. But if they *had,* or if Jason had, I believe they would have been treated exactly the same way. Her sin was selfishness, not deeming herself 'worthy' of anything)

Even assuming that Steph really is a terrible Robin who didn't deserve any acknowledgement, do you think it's a coincidence that the only female Robin is the one who was worst at the job?

♥ ♥ ♥

Yup. Because there have been at least three other 'Girl Wonders' in Elseworlds who don't suck near as much, so it must just be that Steph's character is unsuited for the role. Doesn't matter that she's a girl, just that she, as a character, should never have been Robin.

I'm pretty sure someone's made the "main continuity is different from Elseworlds" point already, so I won't try to argue that one. But I will say this:

I don't care whether you like Steph as a character or as a Robin. Honestly, she's not one of my particular favorites either (though I don't hate her). I just think it's disingenuous to treat her failure and/or lack of recognition as though it's an isolated incident rather than part of an overall trend in comics.

And I think that it's disingenuous to turn something that *is* an isolated event into a rallying point for a certain politcal stripe. Especially when said incident is more about story and character than gender.

Okay, forget it. There's no point in continuing to argue. I should never have started, really.

[ SECRET POST #582 ]

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154

Re: 154