[ SECRET POST #4345 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4345 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry for the exceptionally late, thought I'd already posted this today! At least it'll be here for everybody in the morning.

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 27 secrets from Secret Submission Post #622.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I’m the OP of the sentiment if not the secret and I think Kylo Ren is plenty handsome. The difference, for me, between Vader and his grandson is that Kylo Ren knew his family was out in the world and alive and when offered a chance at forgiveness and reconciliation he killed his father. Anakin Skywalker went paranoid-flavor nuts and eventually mortally injured his wife starting with nightmares and suspicion that the wife and unborn children he loved were under threat. The first cracks in Vader’s devotion to the Emperor (which never really looked like heartfelt belief in the Empire, considering his contempt for its military) occurred when he realised he had living children.

What Vader did was horrific. Anakin Skywalker killed children and his fellow Jedi and probably the wife he’d loved, and by the time of his death as Vader, he was a bloated old cripple kept alive by his prosthetic armor prison. But the only time the audience sees him lose control and throw screaming tantrums he’s just lost both legs and his remaining arm and caught fire from molten lava. He could be a whiny creep and even he wasn’t as cringe inducing as his grandson who had two loving, living parents and still grew into a frothing shrieking weirdo. Kylo Ren had a better life up until he was maybe 16-20 and his uncle tried to kill him, and in retaliating he killed a good chunk (all?) of his fellow students.

Also I’ve only watched each of the new movies once, and where the hell did the Knights of Ren shown in the first movie, that were with Kylo while he slaughtered the other Jedi students, come from? Did Rian Johnson just decide they didn’t exist? Idk.

[philstar22]

The thing is, though, Kylo didn't actually have a great life. Snoke started talking to him and manipulating him early. And his parents weren't present enough to notice, and Luke somehow managed to not notice either. His sense of reality has been so completely warped and twisted. Luke thought about killing him for a moment because he saw the evil developing in Kylo without seeing the context and seeing what Snoke was doing to him. And that moment of weakness from Luke confirmed for Kylo all that Snoke had been telling him.

Whether or not you find any of this compelling, Kylo still has his own twisted background and reasons for being who he is that aren't just being whiny.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

And then Kylo confirmed for Luke that he was in fact evil by murdering the other students. So Luke wasn't even WRONG in his thinking, even if his guilt says otherwise.

[(Anonymous)]

We don't know that yet. We have Luke's words, but he was unconscious during the time this went down. It's possible he murdered them and it's also possible Kylo Ren could have killed them protecting himself (like he thought he was doing with Luke). Or the students that became the Knights of Ren killed the other students.

As for your last sentence, I suggest you read the myth of the binding of Fenrir.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT—I guess maybe Snoke wasn’t compelling enough, and the films didn’t go into enough detail, for me to believe that Snoke’s mindfuckery excused or explained everything Kylo did. And I just can’t make the leap from distant parents and a voice in his head telling him shitty things with becoming a shrieking unstable murderer, and certainly not on the scale he managed. Real life parallels to his situation seem like they would involve someone with paranoid schizophrenia falling in with a paramilitary white supremacist cult, or similar, except most schizophrenic people are more dangerous to themselves than others and have nothing like Kylo’s rap sheet.

And I dunno, as someone whose parents were seceral orders of magnitude more fucked up than Leia and Han with a basketful of attendant mental issues, I get mad when I see people woobify and excuse mass murder and a total lack of fellow feeling for everyone but a potential
love interest on the basis that someone had loving but confused and neglectful parents and mental issues oh poor baby. There are lots of people with that backstory or worse who aren’t murder-cult participants.

[philstar22]

I'm not saying you have to find the reasons compelling at all. I'm just saying it is disingenuous to say there weren't any reasons. There were. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but it is there.

Also not saying Kylo is justified in what he is doing. He's not. Not woobifying him at all. He's evil. But Anakin wasn't justified either and was totally evil as Vader (I'd argue perhaps even more so than Kylo). And for me at least, both are about at the same level in terms of being evil, having backstories that explain that, and being perhaps capable of redemption. Don't know if they are going to go that way with Kylo or not. But if they do, it will probably work for me personally.