[ SECRET POST #4351 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4351 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 81 secrets from Secret Submission Post #623.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[philstar22]

I feel like both the secret maker and some people in this thread don't understand that a military is different from a regular situation and that leading in the military is not exactly the same as leading in other situations. In the military situation, the command structure holds a lot more weight. So Poe's demotion has a lot more meaning than some people give weight to, and his "social currency" or whatever doesn't mean much.

[(Anonymous)]

This, damn.

Also, operational security is a thing, and it's important. Commanders don't withold information because they're meanies, they withold information because minimizing the number of people who know the details of a plan is the best way to minimize the number of people who can leak that plan, even accidentally. Which Poe, as someone who was career military, should have known, especially in a situation where it looked like there might have been a spy in the resistance.

[(Anonymous)]

Also Poe's reaction was to do something that did end up endangering the fleet, thus proving his unreliability.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely. I think maybe the fact that hyperspace tracking was completely unknown to the Resistance (so it was an eminently reasonable conclusion that there was a spy in the midst) was missed by some of the audience.

[(Anonymous)]

The execution was so bad, I literally didn't catch the "we think there's a spy onboard" thing during the first watch. I mean, I knew there was a tracker, because that's what Finn & Rose needed to disable, but it was ... not handled very well. I was much confused, & yes, if it had been presented more clearly, I wouldn't have had any trouble believing Holdo was holding her cards close to her chest for that reason (& yes, the pun is intentional).

[(Anonymous)]

It only "holds more weight" because people say it does. A leader is a leader. I wouldn't follow a military leader I had reason to believe was making choices that would lead everyone to their deaths, fuck that.

[(Anonymous)]

You mean like Poe? Poe led a whole bunch of people to their deaths because of his showboating.

[philstar22]

This. Poe was liked by his peers, but that doesn't mean he was a good leader or someone who should be trusted with sensitive information. From a military standpoint, he didn't have the rank. But even just from a character standpoint, I wouldn't have trusted him with that information. He's too likely to go off half-cocked. He's too impulsive.

[(Anonymous)]

Do people really not think that soldiers are incapable of disobeying their superior officers? That, for some reason, because they have a command structure they are incapable of realizing their superior officer is full of shit? Hell, the German military takes an oath to disobey immoral orders. I'd think getting everyone killed for no reason qualifies.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, getting everyone who follows you killed is a good reason for people to stop listening to you. It’s also a good reason to be demoted and for your superior officers to choose not to include you in their strategic meetings.

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing you say is wrong, it just doesn't obviate that Poe also had valid reasons to be concerned and Holdo did a bad job carrying out her plan on those grounds

[(Anonymous)]

Secret Anon: Actually, both my parents are ex-military.
And mostly what this makes me think of is Captain William Bligh, who was a brilliant navigator and a *shit* leader. Didn't matter much if his fellow officers felt he acted correctly if none of the rank-and-file trusted him further than they could toss him.

[(Anonymous)]

His "social currency or whatever" means that he has influence over others. And if he pulls in another direction than you're going, then it's going to muck things up. Which the film showed. I would think a good military leader would want to mitigate that risk.

There are many points where Holdo could have done so, or could have chosen alternate strageties like brig, but did not do so, because it would not have worked for the plot. The writing is the reason why she doesn't respond in a real-life way, but within universe, I can't really explain why she fails to defuse the situation at any point.

[philstar22]

Sorry, but social currency doesn't balance out insubordination to me. Sometimes the most popular people are terrible and shouldn't be trusted (a lot of the time actually). And he was insubordinate from the beginning of the movie. He was insubordinate to Leia of all people. Thus, he was demoted. Thus, he was not trusted with sensitive information. Makes perfect sense to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, still makes you a shit commander if you're not capable of reading the atmosphere where withholding crucial information from people in a potentially lethal situation may lead to a mutiny. Especially since the kind of "Just follow your orders and never question authority" is the stick of the guys you fight against.

[(Anonymous)]

You know this is fiction, right? I realize you're a huge Holdo stan, but she acted stupidly because the stupid plot demanded it.

[philstar22]

You do realize people are allowed to disagree with your interpretations and opinions, right? I don't think she acted stupidly. I think the plot was great, and I think what she did made perfect sense.

[chamonix]

I agree with you, and I also like Poe a lot. It seems pretty clear to me that the only reason we feel Holdo is being unreasonable is because we are seeing the situation from Poe's POV, a character we are already invested in. Her choices make perfect sense from an objective standpoint. It's a GOOD thing she isn't showing favouritism just because Poe is popular, WTF? The Rebellion is only rebelling against the First Order, not military and political structure itself. They are championing the Republic, which absolutely respected structure and chains of command.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreeing with both you and Philstar so hard in this comment section.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

how far back and deep 'military' are we going? Because an incompetent officer getting killed 'accidentally' by friendly fire has been an actual thing - well, recorded since at least WWI but probably before that as well. NCOs are deeply influential with the men they lead, often a great deal more than COs who haven't been 'in the trenches' with them. I mean, in this case the whole thing is simply textbook trashy romance novel 'but they didn't communicate and their misunderstanding drove the entire second half of the book' writing but its a little naive to think that ground pounders in a battle situation blindly follow COs orders when their NCOs are getting agitated. Military mentality with the boots on the ground during wartime has some key differences from military during peace time.

[(Anonymous)]

Poe isn't an NCO.