[ SECRET POST #4354 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4354 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #623.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The first and most important lens through which to see Angel (at least during seasons 1-3 of Buffy) is as an example of a specific kind of teenage girl fantasy romantic object.

Focusing primarily on the literal, textual characteristics of Angel (IE, being a 200-year-old vampire) and missing the role that he actually plays in the show doesn't make sense to me.

Now obvs you can still say that the idea of the sensitive slightly older man as romantic target is bad, but that's a really important dimension of what's going on in the show.

[(Anonymous)]

Whereas I don't understand prioritising the archetype the show was going for over the character's actual, in-universe history and behaviour. And in-universe, Angel was a significantly older man with obsessive and stalker tendencies and a non-zero chance of flipping out and torturing people to death if Buffy pressed the wrong emotional button. Archetype or no archetype, that's not really a healthy relationship goal.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, I'm not saying that you should ignore any aspect of the text. But I think keeping in mind the metaphor is crucial to understanding what is happening. even on that level, it's not really a functional relationship - the fact that Angel becomes a total piece of shit after they sleep together is really important to what is going on in the fiction. I'm just saying that the 200-year age gap maybe isn't that central and doesn't need to be taken exclusively literally.

[(Anonymous)]

I will grant that the age gap is among the least of anyone's worries in this relationship. It's still a bit of a doozy even on its own, though, because regardless of human or vampire years, he is still a LOT older than her, and a big part of their dynamic was him wanting this teenage girl to somehow save him from his accumulated life problems. 'Skeevy older man wants pure young thing to save him from his sins' isn't the best look on a character either.

[(Anonymous)]

That's totally reasonable! I do think it's an instance where the literal situation complicates and weakens the metaphor.

[philstar22]

The age gap wouldn't bother me if she was of age. He's an adult. How big the gap is doesn't actually matter to me. He's an adult in a relationship with a teenager. That's not okay and shouldn't be romanticized. It doesn't bother me that she's into him. What gets me is the other people in her life being okay with it. Giles and especially her mother should have been a lot more freaked out about him being an adult, not just that he's a vampire.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I mean, if I'm going to pick which concern to have FIRST and probably loudest, 'vampire' does override a little bit.

[philstar22]

Well, yes. But once they knew he was good, everyone seemed all fine and dandy with the relationship. Her mother protested some. But only a little.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe they felt that, after accepting that it might be okay for her to date a bloodstained demon of the night who once carved a path through Europe, because he's apparently good now, worrying about his age might be a relatively minor quibble?

I mean, what do you say? 'Yes, honey, you can date a repentant ex-serial killer, but only one who's closer to your age'?

Honestly, there's just no aspect of that relationship that was a good idea. It's just that, compared to some of the other aspects, the age gap, as bad as it was, really wasn't the worst of it. On a scale of terrible choices ... well, honestly I'd have written him off at 'stalker', but 'ex-serial killer' probably still ranks a bit higher than 'older man'.

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone? Nope, Giles was never easy with it, and with reason, and to his cost above all the rest. But no-one cares about him, apparently.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been reading romanticized teen/adult stories for almost 15 years now and like someone once said, you'll have to pry them from my dead cold hands

[(Anonymous)]

Did a vampire write this

[(Anonymous)]

LOL!

[(Anonymous)]

I got the impression watching AtS that "Angel" was a newer being than "Angelus." He seemed pretty confused by the modern world and his existence, and spent like 20 years eating rats in a depressive, hallucinatory Gollum state as the curse made him recall decades of evil acts.

Which isn't exactly a glowing recommendation of his romantic chops, but in my mind he sort of underwent a factory reset, fairly recently to the events of the show. So he wasn't "pervy elderly man" so much as "super damaged twenty-something in a real old body."

[philstar22]

Well, a 20-something dating a 16 year old is still rather skeevy, IMHO. And the fact that the attraction on his part started when she was 15 makes it even worse.