fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07. [SPOILERS for A Series of Unfortunate Events]

__________________________________________________

08. [WARNING for discussion of rape]

[Tales of Zestiria]

__________________________________________________

09. [WARNING for discussion of RL death]

[Walk Off The Earth]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #628.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Oh, for fuck's sake.

First of all, nonbinary comes via Kate Bornstein, who was pointing out in the early 1990s that not all transfeminine people were best served by strict gatekeeping that forced them to act hyperfeminine as a precondition for getting support, treatment, and gender-confirmation surgery. Another radical suggestion at the time was that trans people should be able to choose (with consultation with their medical providers) both how and when we transition, and that declining top or bottom surgery isn't a failure.

The other major thread in this genderqueer, which comes via Les Feinberg, one of the leaders of LGBT history and philosophy, who documented people who cross-dressed, adopted new names, and played with pronouns, within historic gay/lesbian culture. Feinberg suggested that historic people who did not pass as their assigned gender, got no benefits from passing, often were criminalized, institutionalized, beaten, or killed for not passing, probably had some pretty good reasons why they didn't just pass. There's a long history of gay, lesbian, and bi people estranged from dominant gender identities.

Note that none of this is saying that cis and heterosexual people are Barbie and Ken clones. The argument here is that trying to shape all trans people into Barbie and Ken clones, which was the official medical standard of practice required for legal recognition until extremely recently, isn't a universal good.

Culturally there is a gender "uncanny valley" in which, you're very likely to be clocked as queer, get a beating, get harassed, get thrown out of respectable businesses, get reported to HR for breaking the dress code, or invite a police response even if you're using the legally correct restrooms and changing rooms. That gap is a bit broader for amab people then for afab people. But, the "baby butch" look stops being cute after baby is expected to grow up, and "f*gs" learn to live with eyes in the back of our heads. Ezra Miller and Jayden Smith are leveraging a lot of privilege to wear those skirts. No, it's not really "trendy," even among Gen-Z. Gender-nonconforming LGBTQ youth report high levels of harassment and violence within American school systems. (As of two years ago, I suspect that Trump gutted that data collection.)

And you know what, it has absolutely nothing to do with cis people. It is not a commentary on what cis people do, and arguing it does is just rebranding 1970s transphobia for a new century. It's about our efforts to live without discrimination and violence. It's about our struggles with the proven adverse health outcomes of passing in hostile environments. It's about how we organize support networks. It's about how we get mental health treatment that isn't centered on the needs of cis men and women.

Any commentary on gender norms is a commentary on "what cis people do."

You could actually bother to read nonbianry people who will acknowledge that it's possible for cis women to be masculine, and cis men to be feminine, but we have needs and stressors beyond just "cis people can do that too."

OK, I'm chewing on this. Your post helped, really.

The history of this? Sure, that's accurate. But by continuing to act like every gender non-conforming person is something "other" and trending it up (because yes, it very much IS a trend right now), they're only reinforcing that "bit conforming to stereotypes =other" instead of trying to continue normalizing gender(stereotype)-nonconforming behaviour.

Dude. I know a lot of nb people who are very stereotypically feminine or masculine depending on what they're designated at birth. Get off your stupid, bigoted horse that can't conceive that NB people are as much a spectrum as the rest of us.

Nah,they're not, not matter how many tantrums you throw, honey.

"Trends" are generally what elites manage to get in the pages of glossy magazines and websites, but don't really change reality for the rest of us LGBTQ schmos. Bisexuality has been perpetually "trendy" since the 70s, which hasn't stopped any of the discrimination of violence I've experienced in my lifetime. It's still a reality that transfeminine people in some communities rent lock-ups out of town and check into hotel rooms once a week in order to dress.

But no, my wearing feminine clothing is not a comment on how you wear feminine things. How I get my hair cut is not a commentary on how you get your hair cut. My hobbies (unnecessarily gendered) are not a comment on your hobbies. None of that defines me as a genderqueer person.

[ SECRET POST #4390 ]

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?

Re: What's your opinion on nonbinary identities?