[ SECRET POST #4473 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4473 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Note from OP: All images obtained without creepy family stalking: James & Sullivan Marsters' from a promo shot for their band, Jensen & JJ Ackles' from Jensen's public Instagram]


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[Queer Eye]


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15. https://i.imgur.com/EcOtWAA.gif
[animated secret, Avengers]













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #640.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I completely agree with everything you said.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't experience a bit of Schadenfreude when Tony couldn't talk Star Lord out of his mindless rage in a similar situation.

Oooh, good point! I mean, I'd like to think that in a situation where Tony knew the fate of half the universe was at stake, he wouldn't have been the selfish, idiotic hothead that Quill was. But IDK - maybe that's just me giving Tony the benefit of the doubt because I do rather like the guy (while I've never been more than lukewarm on Quill).

[(Anonymous)]

Not change the subject, but I hope Tony and Quill have words about that particular fuck up.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think it would be really smart of the writers if they go there. Excellent emotional continuity.

The question I have, right off the bat, is whether Tony is more forgiving of Quill than most of the others because he feels like he's made a similar fuck-up in the past, or whether Tony thinks Quill is garbage that doesn't deserve the second chance he gets, specifically because he sees his own mistakes in Quill - i.e. sees Quill as the embodiment of the parts of himself he cant forgive.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, if he tries to tear Quill a new one after everything's fixed, since Quill was one of the ones who died, I'd say that's a pretty dick move.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. I'd like to tear Quill a new one. I'd like everyone in the universe to take turns tearing Quill a new one. Tony's in a semi-glass house when it comes to tearing Quill a new one, but given Tony's character that's all the more reason why he probably would - he gets to castigate someone who deserves it and himself by proxy. And you know, after helplessly clutching Peter while he begged to stay and apologized for dying, I'd say Tony has as much right as anyone to tear Quill a new one.

Like, I was alright with Quill up until that moment in Infinity War, but yeah, Thanos won because of Quill's actions. If we're going to talk about unforgivable characters, Quill is numbers one through ten on my list.

[(Anonymous)]

Idk I guess I feel like Quill's actions, while obviously not a great thing to do, were completely understandable, and that the way Marvel tends to write its characters, literally any of the main heroes would have done something similar in that situation. I don't even particularly like Quill and I'm way over the Guardian franchise but the rampant hate is so OTT to me.

And I /especially/ think it's weird to bash him while granting so much compassion to Tony's actions in Siberia when they're really, REALLY comparable. If one deserves forgiveness and understanding, so does the other IMO.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like Quill's actions, while obviously not a great thing to do, were completely understandable

I get that some people feel this way. I very much do not. I don't care how full of rage and grief he was, he knew the fate of half the universe was at stake. As far as I'm concerned, he decided his feelings were more important than the lives of half the universe. He's not a toddler; he has a responsibility to control his emotions when the fate of the universe is at stake.

I hold Tony responsible for his actions too. However, I find his lashing out about a thousand times more forgivable, because the fate of the universe wasn't at stake.

Tony and Pepper's relationship feels a lot stronger to me than Quill and Gamora's, but even so, if you put Tony in Quill's place - have him discover that Thanos killed Pepper and attack Thanos resulting in the failure to remove his gauntlet - I would feel very much the same way. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Tony's character anymore.

[philstar22]

Marvel does write their characters that way. A lot of people write characters this way. There seems to be this idea that even the most trained hero, even in the situations with the most at stake for the world/universe, will choose the people they personally care about over the world, and that anyone who doesn't do this doesn't really love their people.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the anon who thinks Quill can go fuck himself, but I do agree with you about this, and it annoys the heck out of me almost every time they do it.

The thing is, I actually love the idea that some people have a person in their life who they would let the world burn for. A person about whom they're just like, "I would let everyone else die and spend the rest of my life hating myself for it, if it meant [person] would be ok." But that's a very potent, very specific type of bond that, IMO, should be used sparingly. As opposed to the way Marvel does it, where it's just like, "A person in my life whom I have some kind of relationship with was being hurt, so I buckled like a goth's boot and now we're ALL fucked. But gosh did I show I cared."

[(Anonymous)]

Don't worry, he's dead, you don't have to loathe him so much anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure what him being dead has to do with anything, anon.

Him being dead has no impact on how I feel about who he was when he was alive. And him being dead right now has nothing to do with how I'll feel about him when they bring him back.

[philstar22]

I just wish it wasn't portrayed as the only way to love someone. And that people who are willing to save the world even if it means losing a loved one weren't portrayed as not loving their people as much as someone who is willing to let the world burn for their loved ones.

[(Anonymous)]

There also seemed to be this underlying theme in IW (that I personally hated) that love is weak and futile and just gets people killed, while being cold and calculating and """rational""" wins. I get that "realistically", sure, logic is good, but it felt gross and out of place to me in this particular franchise.

[philstar22]

See, I feel like it was portraying that there is only one way to love someone. All the calculating ones who were willing to focus on saving the world were the ones without loved ones. They never portrayed someone who had a family or a girlfriend/boyfriend being horrified at seeing that person dying but realizing that the world was at stake and so they had to focus on being a hero. The only real exception was Wanda, and she didn't want to do it, Vision himself told her to. And Wanda's sacrifice didn't even make a difference in the end.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean they technically did show someone losing a loved one when their goal was at stake, but it was Thanos, and he dragged Gamora kicking and screaming and begging to her death, so it wasn't love.

The whole Wanda thing pissed me off too, especially since Thanos got the Soul Stone for what he did, again rewarding cruelty over care. If anything, Wanda should have like, idk, spontaneously won the Soul Stone from him in that instant because she was /actually/ making a sacrifice of love for the greater good. I don't even like the ship and thought they should have listened to Vision's wishes sooner, but her sacrifice meant something to the character and meant NOTHING to the plot, which is just...a really unsatisfying narrative, imo.

[(Anonymous)]

that would require the russos to give a shit about writing tony well and allowing character development but i would like to see it.

[(Anonymous)]

I doubt it, considering the writers never gave him the chance to talk to the Maximoffs about how it feels to stare down a Stark Industries missile and how it changed his whole world like it did with them. (he could have done so much good with that kind of talk, but nope. Let's just ignore it.)

[(Anonymous)]

Different Anon but I would give my left kidney for Richard Rider/Nova to be added to the MCU just for the iconic “I pulled him inside out and saved the universe. What did you do Tony?”-line so finally someone can call Tony out with no ifs and or buts about it. (Star lord is unfortunately a lost cause since he’s nothing like comics!Peter Quill)

[philstar22]

Quill is one of the ones gone. But Thor is still there. And Thor did the same thing when he didn't go for Thanos's head. So Thor and Steve can have that discussion.

[(Anonymous)]

Thor did the same thing when he didn't go for Thanos's head.

Are we actually told that Thor deliberately goes for Thanos' chest because he doesn't want Thanos to die instantaneously? (I've only seen Infinity War once, so I don't remember all the details perfectly.) I assumed that Thor was merely aiming for the larger target, and/or didn't have time to perfect his aim as he came down and struck Thanos in the chest on instinct or [insert any other plausible explanations here]. If it really is the case that he deliberately went for the chest because he wanted Thanos to know Thor had bested him, then yikes, that...sucks. I like Thor quite a bit, but I dunno if I can make peace with the fact that he did that.

[philstar22]

Actually, it wasn't entirely clear to me on film. But the Russos have said that is what happened, so I'm willing to buy that.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm so done with the Russos and this kind of shit is why.

[(Anonymous)]

i'm so glad people are finally seeing the light about them.

[(Anonymous)]

But the Russos have said that is what happened

Ah, okay. That sucks. I think I'm just gonna...ignore them. Hopefully they don't do anything to make it completely unambiguous in End Game.

I mean, what Thor does isn't quite as unforgivable to me as what Quill does. Thor comes down in a split second, and seems (however idiotically) to make the knee jerk call that getting Thanos in the chest will be enough. Whereas Quill has several long moments to realize that he's actively tanking their one shot. Hell, his own people are begging him to stop, telling him they're going to lose their shot with Thanos. And he just keeps going.

That said, the Thor thing is still plenty bad enough, IMO.