Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-09-19 05:13 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-09-19 05:13 pm
[ SECRET POST #623 ]
⌈ Secret Post #623 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[countries from the game Pandemic II]
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Notes:
1. Check out
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif){kind=small}
ljconfesses if you haven't!2. CITY STUFF → [ pop ]
3. Also, for anyone who needs people to click links for games, this site is really helpful: http://swle.yarold.eu/?id=3809
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #089.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 6 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 123
(Anonymous) 2008-09-20 02:45 am (UTC)(link)Some fans of the series go far beyond your average sexist tripe and into territory that is, to be honest, disturbing. Not all fans, by any means, but just enough to be noticeable. Inappropriate double standards are only the tip of the iceberg. From the sort of derogatory terms I've seen applied to the primary female character in the series, one would have to wonder if the fans were harboring some kind of resentment against women in general, especially since they fawn over equally flawed male characters.
Me too. I don't recall saying anime or manga are sexist mediums in general, but that doesn't excuse the fact that some of them have sexist qualities. Plenty of American shows are guilty of the same, so this is hardly a cultural issue. And from an American or Japanese point of view, quotes like 'Men have dreams that women can't understand,' courtesy of the manga Bakuman, are slaps in the faces regardless of misunderstandings based in different cultural values. If you'd like to defend that as 'respectful,' then by all means, I'm waiting. I'm sure plenty of Japanese people would be prepared to stand you up, too.
Also? If you were familiar with the material I was speaking of, and the interaction of fans in response to it, I and many others would probably be more likely to take your opinions seriously. But until then, everyone's going to take what you say with a grain of salt the size of Alaska.
Re: 123
Re: 123
I don't really know why on earth honor killings would be in any way related to sexism, unless you're talking about killing a cheating wife to defend your honor, which has been a cultural trait of most every society in some point of their history so it's not really fair to attribute it as a Japanese-only issue.
And I'm afaid I can't really define what parts are cultural tradition until I'm clear on what you're talking about being offensive. It's clear that the Bakuman stuff you've quoted at me is sexist, I get that. But Fullmetal Alchemist and D.Gray-man don't have any of that in their source work, which is what's confusing me.
Re: 123
See, I agree that those kind of things are definitly sexist. But usually, when I get into conversations about anime and sexism, a lot of things that people assume are sexist really aren't. Like in Naruto - a lot of people think Kurumada is sexist because the vast majority of his female characters are healers. To certain American readers, this appears sexist because the women are kept out of combat as back-up and are more often defended by their male counterparts. They feel that a woman as to be completely autonomous in order to be independant and strong.
To the Japanese, this is simply an illustraion of the source of a woman's strength - a woman does not need to be violent to be strong, the way a man does, she displays her strength by supporting and being a pillar for a loved one or her family. Most of the time, the male leads in shonen manga would fall apart if their wives/girlfriends/sisters/mothers weren't there to support them. Japanese women aren't strong because they don't need men, they're strong because the men can't live without them.
That's the cultural tradition that I was refering to. You see what I mean?
Re: 123
Re: 123
I'm actually quite familiar with the source work of both D.Gray-man and Fullmetal Alchemist. The original works don't strike me as particularly sexist (Miranda, Hawkeye and Linali are awsome no matter how you color it, and you can't deny female characters' importance in the male leads' emotional wellbeing) but I'm not very familiar with the fandoms. For all I know, certain fans really are misognists. It's just a somewhat extreme term that should only be used in specific situations, but gets thrown around alot because it sounds impressive, so I usually assume that people are exagerating when they use it.
Don't know Bakuman, never claimed to have known it or seen it. All my statements were 'most' specifically because of that. I don't know the manga, so I can judge it. I suppose I was reading your statement as a blanket "anime is sexist in general" thing because you seemed to be agreeing with the OP ("yeah, lots of it is sexist, but there's a *few* good ones out there") which is what I was arguing against. I think it goes the other way around - there's a lot of good anime out there, but only a few are truly sexist.
And, as you said, you shouldn't let a crappy fandom reflect negetively on good source work.