[ SECRET POST #4495 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4495 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #644.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Can someone tell me why Tony is so hated? I'm not super into the MCU. I barely even remember what happened in Infinity War.

[(Anonymous)]

For me it was Civil War that made me dislike him. I know they tried to make both sides understandable, but for me Tony was clearly in the wrong from the beginning, and even though I sympathized with him about his parents, he knew Bucky wasn't the one who was to blame. A little bit of fighting in that scene was understandable. It went on too long, though, for me to be able to find Tony's POV understandable.

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

lol crap, I guess I'll have to watch Civil War again to understand

[(Anonymous)]

They succeeded in making both sides extremely stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue that while both sides were stupid, at least Steve and his side were understandably stupid. Can't say the same for Tony.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Steve let big bad fly away to Russia and picked a fight in an international commercial airport because he wanted a shield and a blinged out jet. Tony ignored big bad for a full day and made two international flights because Disney wanted a Spider-Man. After that, there's no reason to take anything about that movie seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. The Accords needed some serious work, but when the majority of the world (seriously, the number of UN signatories for the Accords would be a huge fucking deal if it were anything but a throwaway plot to make some superheros punch each other) says "hey, maybe stop bulldozing into our sovereign territory and getting a bunch of civilians killed", deciding nah, I'm gonna keep doing the thing isn't remotely reasonable.

Especially when the most recent event to give the Accords an enormous push forward wasn't anything related to supernatural, alien, or killer cyborg bullshit. It was Steve completely bungling an incident involving a 100% ordinary human terrorist and causing a bunch of civilian deaths that could probably have been avoided if he was there in cooperation with the local government instead of cowboying in with a completely inadequate team to do the job.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

This exactly. Civil War soundly ruined Steve and all the characters who sided with him for me. Super-powered individuals are always dangerous, but those who decide that laws don't apply to them and they can go and do whatever they want, no matter the damage and death toll, how dare anyone or the international community try to tell them differently, and insist they are being good and righteous and morally superior that way, are not even vigilantes anymore. They are sprouting the same rhetoric as despots and terrorists.

I just don't get the logic at all. If anyone with a high-stakes job screws up at their job, there is an investigation (if there isn't, we call that a cover-up). Most applicable here imo is a comparison to soldiers and cops. We all want an investigation is a cop bungles an operation and kills someone. If that cop goes somewhere, not on the job, with no legal basis for their actions, involves themselves in a situation they know nothing about and have no reason to be in, and kills someone, then we expect there to be an investigation and a charge for manslaughter or murder. Whether or not there were valid reasons and extenuating circumstances should be decided by a court of law, not by the person who did the killing. Rules are good. Regulations are good. Accountability is good. They build the framework that keeps megalomaniacs with superiority complexes from killing everybody.

Look, post-Civil War I entertained fantasies of the world in the MCU coming together in the face of this obvious threat. I knew they wouldn't happen because America-centrism and ~heroes~, but I wanted to see Europe close ranks with Africa (pissed at the same people bc of Lagos) and Asia (China would jump at the chance, and there are enough forces in the Middle East who chafe at Americans invading countries and killing people in the name of democracy) and hit the US with embargoes, restrictions, and close down all their military bases on foreign ground.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Civil War forever ruined for me Sam Wilson and Steve "Captain only of America." I don't understand why there weren't real repercussions for what they did. Bucky was most probably still mentally compromised, although him hurling a civilian off a motorcycle and into traffic to save his own skin really tarnished my view of him as well. And T'Challa out on a revenge spree? It's not the heat of the moment anymore if you have time to book a flight.

Civil War was the last MCU movie I watched.

[(Anonymous)]

What movie again?

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't crazy about him before that, but Civil War was rubbish writing and plotting, which didn't do anything for his character at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh Lordy. This thread ought to be fun.

Here’s my take on it, OP:

1) The writing for Tony is sometimes inconsistent, especially between movies. His character development is often reset, and it makes him make mistakes that people think he shouldn’t be repeating. It also doesn’t allow him to grow out of being an emotional hot mess a lot of the time.

2) He’s one of the most prominent members of the MCU, and he’s included in other character’s movies/arcs enough that some fans feel that he gets too much attention at the expense of other characters.

3) A lot of people object to what he’s done over the last few movies. (Ultron and Civil War, especially.) It doesn’t help that the latter movie explicitly sets him up in conflict with Steve or that the conflict centred around Tony’s position re: Bucky, a character that gets a lot of sympathy from fans.

4) The fact that he is super rich doesn’t actually help.

All of which is vastly understated, and I’m sure I’m forgetting a BUNCH of stuff, but these are the points I use to explain it to myself when I’m wondering where the sea of Tony hate comes from.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 The inconsistent writing and insertion into other stories soured him for me big time. Iron Man 3 concluded a wonderful character arc about responsibility and personal strength and growth...and then every movie after that completely ignored his decisions there. Ultron negates the ending of IM3, and his actions in Homecoming undermine pretty much everything he said in Civil War (imo). It was too hard for me to keep thinking of him as a hero when the writing was throwing away his biggest heroics.

[(Anonymous)]

Inconsistent writing is kind of a thing in the MCU anyway. Thor is all over the place too. I hated the grumbly lunk he was in some of the movies, especially when Chris H is so funny and charming. As far as I am concerned his arc ends with Ragnarok, thanks. Also I like writing him as a space Viking Jack Aubrey type.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this just about nails it.

[(Anonymous)]

A million times this. The inconsistency of Tony’s character is mind boggling to me because he keeps making the same mistakes and as someone who hasn’t watched any of the iron man movies after the first 1 (2 was painful and I don’t care enough to suffer through 3) I’m just. Tired of him not showing any development when he pops up again. Also the shoe horning him into spider-man is just no for me. But I’m unhappy with what the MCU did with Peter anyways and tying him to Tony is just another nail in the coffin for me.

[(Anonymous)]

1000% agreed

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just fed up with him taking screen time away from other characters and having the whole universe revolve around him. He's basically the Wolverine of the MCU, which is never not annoying.

Civil War shouldn't have been made and we should've gotten a proper Cap threequel. Not "Tony's Manpain: featuring some Cap".