fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #627 ]

[ SECRET POST #627 ]

⌈ Secret Post #627 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

RANK 21 AND CLIMBING → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 231 secrets from Secret Submission Post #090.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Hi, OP here.

A lot of people seem to hate me now. So I'm going to explain myself just a bit more.
I don't really know any British people, and most of my fandoms are American, so I really do see us Americans trying in the few British fandoms I'm in.
But it seems obvious. If you're in a fandom where a character never says 'bloody' or 'mate', why make that character then say it in your fic?
I didn't mean there aren't any good ones out there, but a lot of times, it's quite obvious that the author is not American. Like it's obvious there's an American in another country's fandom, but again, we try. We screw up, but we try.

(the secret was actually intended for Australians in my main fandom, but I guess it works all around.)

I totally got that you're talking about Australians (since all Australians say mate, right, right :D :D :D) but it's really not fair assuming that we don't try. You try, you screwed up. Maybe the same thing happens here.

i thought as much (re. aimed at Aussies).

Because although the Brits also use them, we tend to use them so much more...

Although strangely enough, I've never come across fellow Australians using them repeatedly in any non-Australian fandom... it could also be a case of young people in fandom unable to distinguish the linguistic particularities between Aus/UK/US due to overly large amount of primarily American, and part British programming which has caused hybridisation in daily colloquial slang and terms...

Makes me glad we told you to piss off when it came to FTA and you guys wanted full access to our media in order to overrun and eliminate local programming so you could brainwash us into following your American agenda. And in light of that you really should keep in mind that America's aggresive attempts at cultural imperialism in Australia have really got people's back's up, so it could be a case of people doing it on purpose just to make a point, or retain their Australian identity within fandom.

In any case, I would have thought you'd get more irritated over things like calling "flip-flops" thongs, "get drunk" get pissed (as opposed to angry)... those would be more noticeable and jarring than a few 'oi's, 'mate' and 'bloody's considering that such terms are worming themselves into slang through BBC America etc. That, and english is changing so fast nowdays, i don't think anyone is in a position to say unequivocally what is purely a Britishism, Australianism or Americanism.

In any case, I would have thought you'd get more irritated over things like calling "flip-flops" thongs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

When I was a young'in, EVERYONE in my region called "flip-flops" thongs. Only some time after THE THONG SONG did "thong" begin to refer exclusively to the undergarment. I don't know if it's because it sounds childish or because of the 2004 elections (hundreds of Republicans waving "flip-flops" in the air thinking it was clever) but I LOATHE the therm "flip-flop". It makes me feel like I must be old and crotchety.

It warms my heart that somewhere, they are still "thongs".

I haven't read through all the comments yet, your secret interested me the most so I am going back and searching through to see what other people said. Sorry that people appear to be jumping down your throat?

The only thing that perked up in my mind was pointing out the US is a big place? Washingtonians speak differently than Texans who speak differently than New Yokers. Not just accent, but words and phrases. I grew up and been around a lot of people who said "Oi". It's why I use it online, because I use it in real life. "Mate" I haven't heard and I know a few people who moved to the area who seem to have "Bloody" in their day to day vocab.

A coworker of mine moved to the area and refers to every motor vehicle as a truck. He really confused us for a while.

But I understand your frustration. :3

I've lived in a few places around the US, and the slang seemed pretty much the same to me.
I know regions are different, but not all that different.

Our experiences are different then.

Actually, the slang doesn't bother me nearly as much as non-USians applying their local culture to American story environments; bad enough to call a shopping cart a "trolley" but much, much, idiotically more worse to make "late closing day" be a major plot-point in a story set in California.

I think the hate is piling up because it's confusing what country's fans you are speaking about, and which ones you are speaking to.

Well, that and you've gone 'no one tries but Americans' which is a blatant lie, both in the ONLY Americans try sense and the implied ALL Americans try sense.

That, and you've lumped all Australians into an ocker stereotype (I very much doubt you'd be pleased if I lumped all Americans, with their differing regional accents into one category). Where I live, bloody/mate/oi/ripper, etc. are all words that don't pop up often, unless someone was bloody well takin' the piss out of ya. Mate.

Edited 2008-09-24 10:05 (UTC)

Lumping was pretty much the way to get the point across simply.
That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions.
I've read some amazing stories about American characters that were written by Brits.
But on the other hand, it's obvious when a fic writer knows absolutely nothing about American culture and takes no time to find out. And that's what happens more often.

But on the other hand, it's obvious when a fic writer knows absolutely nothing about American culture and takes no time to find out. And that's what happens more often.

And see, I think that's where you're wrong... it's a case of, for Australians, that such words are interchangeable, being that we meld and adopt both American and British terms for things (although British spelling and terms are essentially prefered in the education system).

It's not a case of Australians not taking the effort to learn about American culture, it's a case of 'We've embraced both linguistic sets thanks to the media... so it doesn't matter which word you use. Don't you?'. Its not laziness, its assuming Americans are not so caught up in themselves that they embrace international english. Which is actually a compliment, if you think about it.

Then again, I have no idea what fandom you're referring to, nor the extent of the 'Australianisms' that you feel are pervading the work of Australian fans.

Can you honestly say that if you were writing for an Australian fandom you'd actually research which day is late night shopping day for the appropriate state the character was living in?

And don't even get me started on the gross abuses of characterisation and speech patterns written by Americans for 'Pyro' in the X-Men fandom. I don't think i've ever found one that doesn't read like an overblown tourist's slang guide to Australia. He tends to make Steve Irwin sound neutral.

At this junction, I thought it best to mention that I say this coming as an Australian ex-pat living overseas who has to continually watch out for that blank look of misunderstanding when American and Canadian friends doesn't follow what i'm saying cos they're not used to hearing the word. Yet I've never had a problem understanding anything that they say. I always have soooo much fun messing with you guys by asking 'how long is a fortnight?' XD

It's my subtle revenge for being asked by American store clerks to "speak english" when I visited my family over there awhile back... Because obviously American english is the only true english, and my accent doesn't qualify.

"It's my subtle revenge for being asked by American store clerks to "speak english" when I visited my family over there awhile back... Because obviously American english is the only true english, and my accent doesn't qualify."

English is very different.

But American characters tend to speak American English. That's all I'm saying.

(and I personally do run my stories for other countries' fandoms by someone living in that country, but I do get that not everyone does. Minor details don't matter, blaringly OOC slang does.)

English is very different.

And again, It'd be useful if you quantified what English you're referring to here, because frankly the implications are numerous. British English? International English? I'm assuming what you mean here is that British English is different from American English.

It still doesn't change the fact that for the majority of Americans there's an inherent misplaced belief that "English" is defined as = American English and thus does not require qualification, whereas British English does. On the whole, you tend to tout your English as the rule, as opposed to simply a component of International English. Which again is important, because that linguistic arrogance is insulting.

And again, I'm going to have to disagree on the differences front. After all, if it was so very different we would have trouble communicating and numerous misunderstandings would abound. But generally they don't occur. If they were so very different, we wouldn't, as Australians, been able to seamlessly absorb them and use them interchangeably, would we?

Inherently, British English, American English and International English are not so different. Its only when you head into Singlish territory (etc) that things become particularly complicated. Arguably the variability of English through differences in speech patterns and terms within the US or the UK across different regions alone should prove that things can be different but still understandable nonetheless. Its simply a case of more similarities with your compatriots than with another country. It's not like we're the French, with a government department controlling what constitutes our language and standardising it.

Ultimately, you walk are fine line here between saying "Don't use non-American slang" and saying "You have to write in American English for American fandoms". Because even in non-American fandoms, you already have American fans not realising that things are done different elsewhere complaining about "incorrect" spelling etc, and assuming that the American way is the right way or the only way. Which is why I find it hard to believe that people aren't already mentioning OOC slang in feedback already, and people ironing it out of their writing. Especially taking into account the forays into British fandoms by American fans, where blaring OOC slang, words or cultural differences get immediately shot down and corrected anyway.

I'm sure you probably feel that I'm moving off topic here, but really, a comment like yours carries a heck of a lot of baggage in an era of attempted linguistic imperialism... which I'm sure you weren't aware that you'd inflame. I understand where you're coming from, but in light of the current linguistic situation, unavoidably comes out as very condescending.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #627 ]

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