[ SECRET POST #4517 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4517 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 49 secrets from Secret Submission Post #647.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely. But there's also an audience for weak plots, unrecognizable characterization, sex scenes that read like they're written by a 12 year old virgin, etc. if a writer isn't picky about the quality of their work, they don't need a beta. People who ask me to beta are concerned about the quality of their work, they're not content with just cranking out a slapdash fic even though there's a good chance someone out there will consume it, anyway.

I'm all for supporting people writing what they want. But a beta isn't your personal cheerleader. That isn't their job.

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't imply it was.

But if someone's goal is to write A/B/O fic and the beta thinks there's no place for that, then it's not really on the beta to be like, "you can't do this." A beta's goal should be to help the writer write the best thing they can out of what their intended goal is, e.g. write the best possible gratuitous A/B/O AU in a fandom not suited for that AU, not to be like "your goal is wrong. Write superheroes instead."

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

The scenario you describe is not one I'm referring to, though. We're not disagreeing, though it seems like you think we are? Or at least, you're arguing in opposition to something I didn't say.

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

The scenario I'm describing and referring to is OP's scenario, which is what the thread is about?

"a beta isn't your personal cheerleader. That isn't their job."

It's not OP's beta's job to cheerlead them either, but the beta should be honestly attempting to get OP's fic to where OP wants it to go with the best quality possible, not being like "I don't feel your goal fits here, do something else."

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

Well, no. I think you're rather badly misinterpreting that line. When I said a beta isn't a cheerleader, I meant that it's not their job to tell you that everything is okay because there's an audience somewhere for whatever it is you want to write. I meant that a beta's job is to give constructive criticism where applicable. That's not incompatible with what you said about getting OP's fic to where OP wants it to go.

It's extremely common that sometimes an author will want a fic to be [this thing] but they don't always know how to get it there, or they're too close to the work to see that what they're doing is hindering instead of helping. It's a beta's job to figure that out and give the appropriate feedback. If I'm beta reading someone's article that's supposed to be about apple growing in New England and I notice there's a several pages long tangent about orange harvesting in Florida, it's my job to point that out and advise the author that it's a part of their essay that doesn't fit their end goal.

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. I agree with all that, which is why I questioned your original post.

"Even if she's picking up on this issue correctly, she's not being terribly kind or diplomatic about it..."

That made it sound like authors who just wanted to do one thing, and do it well, had some kind of issue. Or that the issue lay with the author, which it kind of can't because the author is the one that by definition sets the goalposts. Imo, the author wanting to write what they want to write can't be an issue. That's the base you start off with.

If the beta feels like they can't help them get to those goalposts, or thinks the goalposts are terrible, the beta is the one that should be like "yo, I can't do help with this but good luck." Not be identifying what the author wants to do as an issue or telling them they're not being objective about a subjective thing. That's beyond being undiplomatic, that's playing director.

Re: Frustrating beta

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, but I'm really not seeing how you're getting that from the part of my comment you quoted. My point was that even if - and I emphasize IF - the beta was correct, she shouldn't have spoken that way to OP. There are more helpful ways to give constructive criticism and for that reason alone I'd encourage OP to find a new beta.


"Or that the issue lay with the author, which it kind of can't because the author is the one that by definition sets the goalposts."

Authors do set their own goalposts, yes. That doesn't mean they're always the best judge of whether or not they're hitting the mark. If that were true, no author would ever need a beta. So sometimes yes, the issue can lay with the author. Note that I'm not saying this is definitely the case with the OP, just that it's one thing to keep in mind.


"Not be identifying what the author wants to do as an issue or telling them they're not being objective about a subjective thing."

I think I see where you're misunderstanding. No, it's not the beta's job to decide what the author's goal is. But personally, I always ask the author upfront what they want out of their work, what message they want to send, what reaction they want from the audience, etc. That's part of my job. It's also my job to give feedback on things that don't further those goals, because authors do not and cannot always see this for themselves. It's not because they're dumb or blind, it's because it's very, very difficult to be objective about your own work.