fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #636 ]

⌈ Secret Post #636 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Woooooah, it's like SPN secret day.

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com

And the Phoenix Wright kink meme (http://teagueful.livejournal.com/41371.html) says they need some help filling out requests! PW FANDOM, THE KINK MEME CALLS.

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 80 secrets from Secret Submission Post #091.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Angelfucking = involves nonconsensual rape of the person whose body the angel is possessing.

Brotherfucking = doesn't.

Was that really so difficult?

If they had said Castiel's body was a manifestation, I wouldn't mind Dean/Castiel.

But there's no difference between Dean/Castiel and Sam/Ruby morally, they both involve raping the person whose body the angel or demon is using.

1. We don't know about that. Castiel says the vessel wanted to be used by God, but we don't know if Castiel was lying on that or saying the truth, so yeah. And I forgot if it was mentioned in the show if the vessel was still "there" (in the body or dead).

2. Incest. Forbidden by law more often than not. Happens in real life. (I'm pretty sure you've heard these before, but they still apply.)

3. It probably would have been easier if they'd just used a manifestation, but maybe they are trying to bring Good and Evil on one level.

4. On one hand, definitely yes, but until we get more information about Castiel and his relationship with his vessel, maybe not.

I happen to be one of those people who can't manage to get morally vehemently angry about anything two adults do consensually in bed even if I think it's gross, or in violation of some law. Unless they are hurting a third party. So I just don't get how people can be saying these things. If Dean was 20 and Sam was 12 it would be just as bad, but they're not. My problems with incest are that it produces genetic birth defects and is almost always in real life some form of molestation/rape. Wincest usually isn't although there is some Wincest that is that I don't read.

And I do not think Castiel is lying because he's an angel, not a demon. I can't imagine the vessel, if he was a highly devout man, would like his body to be used for sex with Dean. Even if he was devout without being homophobic, which is totally possible (I have a good friend who never misses Mass but is also totally non-homophobic), Castiel and Dean aren't married!

Edited 2008-10-03 00:03 (UTC)

And that's absolutely OK, but most people will go for the most obvious possible squick, which in Supernatural fandom, is the incest.

Well, you could question how the life they've lived influenced their minds; family comes first, great loss far beyond what a normal person must endure at a very young age and still continuing until there's only the brother left to trust...

In real life, many (not saying most, because how can we be sure about that?) incest cases happen through tragic or horrible circumstances and families are destroyed because of it. At least the 2nd of this would probably apply to the Winchesters too.

I'm not saying you are wrong for linking the pairing or your view on the issues. I just want you to consider that most people do not deal with incest in their fandoms and don't want to, because it's not their thing and makes them very uncomfortable.

And until we don't know more about Castiel and his vessel, the incestuous relationship between two fictional brothers can and probably will be considered more squick-worthy than the very much blasphemous relationship between two fictional guys.

I get all that; what I DON'T GET is how people can refuse to see that the rape of an innocent third party totally balances the squick on the side of Dean/Castiel. (BTW it's not my secret.)

Because we don't know if that applies to Castiel yet and until then, people are going to assume that (because it's the good side after all) no innocent bystanders and vessels are going to be harmed during the "possession" (loaning, granting, whateveryouwantttocallit) and the Dean sexing.

How can we not know that?

In 3.01 Castiel admits that he is possessing the body of "a very devout man" who consented to the possession. But saying that by consenting to the possession the man consented to Castiel using his body for sex is kind of like saying that a woman who gets drunk with a man knowing consented to the sex they had even though he didn't tell her that sex was his plan. (Note: I am not saying that if you intend to get drunk and have sex, you've been raped, because people do do that, but they usually also inform their partners of the plan?)

If I were a very devout person and allowed an angel of the Lord to enter my body, I would be so pissed off if said angel proceeded to use my body for sexin' humans! Particularly if I was conscious during it, but even if I wasn't. I mean, if you get roofied you've still been raped even if you don't remember it. And sexin' humans is not something you'd expect an angel of the Lord to do.

Keep in mind, that even though I love Wincest (provided it's adult Wincest, and all) I'm not a batshit OTPer and I was totally down for Dean/Castiel to start. But after Castiel said that wasn't his body, it became a non-starter for me, because I really kind of hate the idea of possession sex.

Well, first, there are different views of God and angels. And maybe the vessel would understand if it was for the "greater good". Maybe the vessel would even have fun too (if he's conscious). There are still too many unclear factor that must be taken into consideration, but I definitely agree with what you are saying.

How this develops all depends on what the next episodes will give us.

[ SECRET POST #636 ]

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